Which Avro Lancaster Windows Were Painted Over?

As far as I know there were no windows painted black in the nose. The small windows along the fuselage were painted black before eventually being deleted in the produiction line

Here’s a Lancaster fuselage window which was lying on the surface in an area in Quarrywood, Elgin, which was used to dump WW2 aircraft wreckage from the MUs RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Kinloss. Other bits lying round were Lancaster parts, beyond doubt.
As you can see, the outer surface has been painted over completely with dark earth/dark green camo – maybe the sprayer used the window as a demarcation marker.

Underneath this camo paint is a layer of night black paint. It’s definitely on the outside, as the only paint on the inside surface is primer green.

Hope that helps…

Does anybody know at what point in Lancaster production the rear fuselage windows were deleted, and from what period in the war existing windows began to be painted over?
I am modelling LM739 “Grog’s The Shot” and have not found any satisfactory answer as to what I should do with the windows.

That is what I was looking for….we found parts belonging to what we believe to be the radio in the vicinity of the painted over plexiglass. Though we also found .303s in the same spot. Danny

Does anybody know at what point in Lancaster production the rear fuselage windows were deleted, and from what period in the war existing windows began to be painted over?
I am modelling LM739 “Grog’s The Shot” and have not found any satisfactory answer as to what I should do with the windows.

See this post:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1326454&postcount=5

That window is a fantastic find! Any other items? Havent seen pics of the Radio op windows painted out. USually they had blackout curtains fitted.

H2S blister, made of clear perspex painted black, or the windows at the wirless operators position just forward of the wing leading edge.

I can’t find it at the mo, but I’m sure there is a previous thread on the fuselage windows and there deletion period.

I have a couple of Lancs that seem to pin down the date a little – if someone can oblige with dates of production for these aircraft, we can pin down the date a bit better than my previous estimate of mid to late 1943.
I have DS771 definitely having windows, and DS848 appears NOT to have windows (it may have them painted over). HK543 had them, whereas HK651 didn’t have them.

Now, another complication of the matter – it appears the little oval navigator’s window forward of the wireless operator’s window didn’t disappear at the same time as the rest of the fuselage windows. LM321 definitely had that window, and does not appear to have the ones in the rear fuselage (although the ones in the fuselage could be painted over). By LM446, the navigator’s window had disappeared. LM739 did not have fuselage windows. The photos I have of JA- and JB serialed Lancs do not show fuselage windows, but I have a pretty limited selection of those Lancs.

any pics of the parts you found? Also would it be worth while to go back? Must be loads sitting buried?

Peter, Eddie, many thanks.

LM739 did not have fuselage windows.

Hi all, I’m new here.

Grogs the Shot was (after D-Day) the personal aircraft of Sqn Ldr Scott DFC, whose flight engineer was my great uncle, Plt Off James McQuaid DFC. I don’t have any photos with me but off the top of my head, ‘739 did have windows but were painted over. If that was what you meant then I’m sorry 🙂

The challenge of the dump where the window was found is the sheer scale of the dig if attempted. It is a former quarry which was at least 100 foot deep. The Williamsons Quarry wood sites were nearby and it became a convenient place to dump bits which had little scrap value,think turrets and frames. The other snag is the totally twisted intertwined miles of cables, control runs also thrown in the pit, makes digging very tricky. There was a time when the surface was open with jagged rusty metals all over, then for safety the council had earth dumped on top then levelled and now grass grows on top. It is a popular place for walkers and you would likely have to promise to restore the site if dug.

I am as keen as you are Peter, what is hard to convey is the difference below the thin layer of topsoil at the Quarrywood. Unlike the recent USAAf dig the site in Scotland is a massive tangle. The very act of trying to use a digger is likely to destroy what is there. Conditions for the operator and any spade diggers would be very full of hazards with no solid surface, voids with sharp objects, cables that could snap and whip back. At least in a surface scrapyard you can see what you are dealing with.

Should be something that should seriously be considered especially with the dump finds that surfaced at that ex usaf base recently…

As far as I know there were no windows painted black in the nose. The small windows along the fuselage were painted black before eventually being deleted in the produiction line

Peter/anyone

Just out of curiosity, what purpose was originally envisaged for the small rows of rear windows?

They don’t seem much cop for observing and I assume they were non-functional – so no good for defensive weaponry.

Cheers

Seb

I can remember quite a lot of circular bundles of cables (perhaps old control cables?) just under the ground at Quarrywood, so they are there. Quite a thickness of expansive pine branches/foliage were dumped on the site before the topsoil, so that would have to be cleared up too.
To me, the very real potential of a veritable treasure trove of rare WW2 parts under the surface far outweighs the dangers involved. I for one would be quite happy to sign any indemnity waver to be able to take part in a dig.
As you say Gary, there are lots of empty quarries in the same wood which are 100 feet deep, and I firmly believe this one has been nearly filled with 45 MU’s scrap.

IIRC, the original Ministry requirement called for a dual bomber/transport capability hence a need for windows down the back end. It was only latterly that the requirement was no longer deemed necessary so the windows were deleted to simplify production.

That window is a fantastic find! Any other items?

Peter – I’m sure my wife has ‘tidied’ a lot of my stuff into the bin, but I did find this while rummaging around today – also from the surface of Quarrywood. It’s made of clear plastic (or thick acetate), with a black painted underside…

That is a armament plate from the FN5 FN50 ammunition cans in a turret of a lancaster.