Which Vulcan would you like to see runnable….

So you are saying there should only be one or two examples of all aircraft preserved in the world then Kev.

Ooh goodie, mass culling of Spitfires, Hunters, JP’s, P-51’s etc, loads of spares for everyone. :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck

Hardly a definitive ‘answer’ but it would be nice if someone could clarify what really did happen.

The idea of adding camoflage (dirt will do) to look like a ‘hole’ while actually being of negligable depth has a long and illustrious history. A rim of a fake crater made of dirt on top of the runway’s surface can be moved by a dozer in seconds, leaving a useable runway, or minutes / hours using men and shovels. The critical question is if there was damage to the surface and where.

I’d assumed the Argentinians had just made mock damage to the runway to deter further raids and buy time to repair any existing damage or fool the British into believing the runway was out of action when it wasn’t.

Funny we don’t ‘know’. :rolleyes:

I rather suspect this is an urban legend that has been repeated often enough to become ‘fact’. Why on earth would you deliberately block your own runway to make it appear that it was blocked? It just doesn’t make any sense!

As for being ineffective, the withdrawal of Argentine fighter forces to protect Buenos Aires against possible Vulcan strikes meant that one bomb on the runway took out a couple of squadrons of Mirages… not bad going really.

You are probably right DB, it maybe an urban myth. However I would still dispute the effectiveness of the raid, by not on this thread for fear of being chastised for taking it off topic.

I read in a vulcan book about the raid that there was only one bomb that hit the runway enough to stop its use from the above mentioned jets. so yes I believe its true!

So you are saying there should only be one or two examples of all aircraft preserved in the world then Kev. What about in years to come when people would be saying they should have kept more of these jets so that at least some could survive for future generations to see. Surely if they had kept a few more Stirlings and maybe the odd Manchester instead of scrapping them there would be some of these on display somewhere now. I too have seen Vulcans in their element but i don’t think their time is past, Just because i’ve seen them fly it doesn’t mean i wouldn’t want anyone else to enjoy the awesome sight and sound of the Vulcan.

Here here!! I’ve never seen it and can’t wait to do so!

XL391.

First flight of 558 was supposed to be June this year? Correct?

If it flies before July 1st I’ll donate one week’s pocket money to the fund. Is that gesture ok with you?

My reasons for not supporting 558 have been made clear already and have not changed. I also don’t understand why we have such replication of aircraft in our Museums and Collections. Vulcans and Concordes are a case in point.

As you say, each to their own. I would just prefer to see examples of types where only one or two remain given preference and precedence.

I may be blase about Vulcans, When I was young I saw them operating in three’s and four’s. It’s just that Now, in my heart, I can no longer support the moves to return a Vulcan to the sky. I’m fortunate to have seen them in their element, but I think their time is now past.

Regards,

kev35

So you are saying there should only be one or two examples of all aircraft preserved in the world then Kev. What about in years to come when people would be saying they should have kept more of these jets so that at least some could survive for future generations to see. Surely if they had kept a few more Stirlings and maybe the odd Manchester instead of scrapping them there would be some of these on display somewhere now. I too have seen Vulcans in their element but i don’t think their time is past, Just because i’ve seen them fly it doesn’t mean i wouldn’t want anyone else to enjoy the awesome sight and sound of the Vulcan.

On a different tack, is the story about the Argentineans placing mounds of earth on the Port Stanley runway substantiated anywhere? I’ve not come across it before and I would have thought a mound of earth on a runway is as much of a hazard to a fast jet as is a bloody great hole! I’m genuinly interested to know.Rich

It maybe just conjecture, however I’ve read several different accounts of the raids, the official account is that on the first raid one bomb struck the runway effectively cutting it. The other claim is that the weapons missed. To disguise the fact and to discourage further attacks on the same target the Argentines placed mounds of earth to make it appear that the runway had been hit. Either way use of the runway was denied to the Skyhawk and Dagger types for the rest of the war, though Pucara’s and Aermacchi’s were still able to operate, as were, obviously, helicopters and possibly C130’s.

The raids were more of a political statement to show the UK’s intent, and more than likely, to try and force the Argentines hand in any negotiations.

Here is a distinctive shape.

Thanks Peter – it’s good to know our efforts are appreciated by some enthusiasts.

A lot is said about duplication of resources etc. when, in truth, there is very little. I can only speak for the VRT but I’d suggest that our experience is a similar one to other volunteer groups and museums across the country. A volunteer’s time is very precious and the guy and gals who give up their weekends and evenings preserving XL426 do so because the aircraft is local and they can’t afford the time or money to regularly travel long distances. Much of our income is derived locally too – most visitors to Open Days will have come no further than 20-30 miles, and for many it will be the first or only Vulcan they’ve seen. Scrap XL426 and the resources (human and financial) that go into it will be lost; they won’t magically transfer to another aircraft many miles away. The resource is a local one; it’s not part of some national ‘pool’ that can be moved from place to place.

The different groups do help each other too, even those with different types of aircraft! After all, we’re all enthusiasts and have nothing to gain by doing each other down. Perhaps we don’t see enough of each other, but that’s probably because we’re too busy working on our own projects.

On a different tack, is the story about the Argentineans placing mounds of earth on the Port Stanley runway substantiated anywhere? I’ve not come across it before and I would have thought a mound of earth on a runway is as much of a hazard to a fast jet as is a bloody great hole! I’m genuinly interested to know.

Rich

I would like to see as many be runnable in sofar as the apu or at least electrics that way it helps to preserve the interior but some examples have not been looked after for so long that any hope of running anything on them is shelved for good.
I tip my hat to the folks at Wellesbourne for keeping 655 in such good nick as well as the folks at Southend!

found this link hope it works, http://www.avrovulcan.org.uk/603/pull.htm

apoligies if a duplicated one….

XM603 at Woodford, as its the only white one!

That post meet with your approval Peter?

Regards,

kev35

Meets with mine 😀

Moggy

Moderators do what moderators must.

Just to drag things back on topic so as not to offend Peter, I do not wish to see any other Vulcans made ‘runnable.’ In a world of finite resources, both in terms of manpower and finaces, I feel duplication of effort and the use of those resources is unwarranted. Save the best ones, leave the rest.

Regarding manpower, why don’t dissimilar groups help each other now and again. Group X’s Vulcan needs work they haven’t got the manpower for, why doesn’t group Y, who are interested in Lightnings give them a hand for a weekend and vice versa? Useful interchange of skills and the opportunity to see another area of the preservation movement.

That post meet with your approval Peter?

Regards,

kev35

All

Keep this thread on topic and watch the language.

Webmaster

Guys I have asked the moderators to step in and clean this thread all the way back to page one as the topic is now lost and there are arguments starting on this that are better off removed.

Hi, Frank.

I’m pleasantly chilled thank you.

I don’t think either XL391 or myself will resort to violence…..

Regards,

kev35

XL391.

First flight of 558 was supposed to be June this year? Correct?

If it flies before July 1st I’ll donate one week’s pocket money to the fund. Is that gesture ok with you?

My reasons for not supporting 558 have been made clear already and have not changed. I also don’t understand why we have such replication of aircraft in our Museums and Collections. Vulcans and Concordes are a case in point.

As you say, each to their own. I would just prefer to see examples of types where only one or two remain given preference and precedence.

I may be blase about Vulcans, When I was young I saw them operating in three’s and four’s. It’s just that Now, in my heart, I can no longer support the moves to return a Vulcan to the sky. I’m fortunate to have seen them in their element, but I think their time is now past.

Regards,

kev35

Guys, chill please.

Yes, what it explains is that I AM NOT INTERESTED IN THESE AIRCRAFT. And, why was it not effective in the Falklands? The mission was to drop bombs on Port Stanley airfield to put the airfield out of action, which, if you look at the pictures, it did. So, not effective? I would say you are talking b******s. Again.

Hate to rain on your parade, but no they didn’t. None of the Vulcan raids actually destroyed Stanley runway, nor did they deny the Argentians the use of the runway. Craters shown in the images taken of the airfield were in fact piles of earth placed there by the Argentines to make it look as though the runway was damaged. What the Black Raids did do, was to discourage the Argentine Air Force from keeping fast attack aircraft based at Stanley. However Pucara’s and Aermacchi’s continued to be based at Port Stanley and use the airfield.

On a different note, caught a glimpse of Hyperdrive on BBC2 this evening, anyone else notice that the serial number of the spaceship is XH558