White Lightin' "P-38" Bound for Europe

I agree to a point i hate the fact we have no flying Mossie here and the Sunderland gone too but remember nobody here was trying to buy them before they went to the USA.
My point is that if a Aircraft is so special to that country some efforts should be made to keep it there were it belongs, If somebody had tried that for us maybe we would have a Mossie here and Sunderland here where they belong instead of cobweb gathering in the USA, Sadly its a expensive bussiness and money talks sentiments don’t.

I think you need to look at it a bit differently. I’m not adverse to a P38 going to England. White Lightnin is not just any 38. Whether it be it’s connection to the CAF, it’s racing at Reno and it being owned by Lefty Gardner, it’s history is in the US.

There are lots of Spits in the US, but MH434 in my opinion belongs in England, flying out of Duxford. It wouldn’t be right to see it flying here. It’s history is in England. To be honest, when ML417 came over here, I felt the same way. Somehow it just doesn’t seem right.

Dan

Kermit’s Mossie was sold for relative peanuts. I know it was 20 years or so ago but it was either £50,000 or £100,000, I can never remember which. A ludicrous figure now for an airworthy Mosquito. Nobody in this country was interested, just like the Sunderland.
At the same auction, the Hurricane, sadly no more, was sold to Canada for £250,000.
It seemed a lot at the time.

Why…….?
No different to Mosquitos, RS709 and RS712 both going to the USA from the UK.
At least it would be flying unlike both of the above…. :rolleyes:

I agree to a point i hate the fact we have no flying Mossie here and the Sunderland gone too but remember nobody here was trying to buy them before they went to the USA.
My point is that if a Aircraft is so special to that country some efforts should be made to keep it there were it belongs, If somebody had tried that for us maybe we would have a Mossie here and Sunderland here where they belong instead of cobweb gathering in the USA, Sadly its a expensive bussiness and money talks sentiments don’t.

No Bull at Duxford LOL

Bentwingbomber, I’ve seen the Sea Vixen and B-25 in Red Bull colours – but neither at Duxford. There have been a couple more over the years, I believe. Some may have been only in Austria and didn’t come to the UK (I saw the B-25 in Holland, not sure if it went to the UK too).

i cant see her being rebuilt before legends although it would be nice to see her parked alongside the P-39 and P-40!

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Just how many Red Bull aircraft have been at Legends so far?

I would imagine as with most things nowadays it’s a learning curve and accountability.
Things have changed for better [and worse depending on a point of view],freedoms have disappeared,remember the low flying displays years ago over the crowdline, now it’s deemed safer,planes are flown to a more strict safety regime.
It is the same in ALL aspects of life,how many people used to drive after popping into their “local” cos you were ok after a pint.
Motorcyclists did’nt wear crash helmets,cars, no seat belts,leaded paint etc but it was normal then.
Responsibilities and accountabilities are changing things,things ARE safer,maybe less imprompt and individual and spectacular but standards have been set and must be adhered to.
JDK was correct “2004’s record is measure of a lot of hard work, not luck. 2005’s will be the same.”
I think it was in the Black 6 restoration video where an owner wanted to bolt the undercarriage in the down position to fly it,can you imagine bodge ups like that happening now,[they don’t do they?]
Well Done all,heres to a good ,Safe and Varied 2005 😀

but more importantly warbirds are not getting any safer

stewart, you really weren’t on the ball today, were you?!

Actually, they are. Both standards of restoration, maintainance, legislation (good and less than helpful admitidly) ground and aircrew competance, attitudes across all aspects of the aviation biz, has come on in leaps and bounds since the 60s. In the last few years, the quality progress has slowed perhaps, but I believe that we are nearing the higher percentage ‘safety’ and a few more percentage points are harder to achieve in that corner of the graph. Accidents will happen, but we can all take a role in minimizing them. Fatalism isn’t part of that. 2004’s record is measure of a lot of hard work, not luck. 2005’s will be the same.

Cheers!

Be careful what you say

[QUOTE=stewart1a]To be fair there are not as many aircraft on the circuit as there was in 1999 they have been either destroyed in tragic accidents or being sold abroad. but more importantly warbirds are not getting any safer. although 2004 for the uk went without a hitch we dont know what could happen in 2005 do we?

With commrnts like that, those of us who work our bits off to keep these Warbirds “I hate that f—–g description of historic aeroplanes”, safe, may as well just f–k off and leave them all safe and sound in the hanger, sorry museum. Per flying hour, they are maintained to a higher standard than the tube Boeing built to take you over the pond. With over 25 years in historic and Commercial aviation I think I may be in a position to comment.

[QUOTE=stewart1a] warbirds are not getting any safer. although 2004 for the uk went without a hitch we dont know what could happen in 2005 do we?

Right little ray of sunshine you are.

I wasn’t moaning about those recent exports just adding to trumpers post. No matter what gets exported something special normally gets imported in their place, just have to wander around duxford to see how much its changed from the late seventies to see that. I for one am grateful for the people that give their time and money to collect these valuable aircraft.

I’d rather have a silver Lightning with a Red Bull on the tail, than no Lightning at all. But I do agree that it would be nicer to have a more authentic colour scheme. Well, can’t have everything, I’m afraid. I’m happy enough Red Bull is sponsoring these aircraft 🙂

Yes, you should al be greatfull for all the nice warbirds you got there in the UK. In Belgium, its a big event to see one spitfire or one mustang. Not even one example of a true WW2 fighter is flying regulary in Belgium. If you organise a event here, we need to contact people in the UK or the Netherlands to see a ‘real’ fighter. We even turn crazy if we see and hear a harvard!

Sometimes, a spit is resting in Antwerp in Belgium (mostly during the winter), but it almoust never flies here.

So don’t worry; you’ve got a healthy amount of Warbirds in the UK to turn each airshow into a special event. 😎

J.V.

Two of the Spitfire IXs were imported from Israel, a third from Belgium. They were rebuilt here, stayed a while, and then moved on. Likewise the Corsairs (I count 6), all being imported from the US, gracing us with their presence for a while, then moving on to new owners elsewhere.

Where do you lot get off with this whining? I’m old enough to remember when we had no Mustangs in Europe, a few years ago at Legends we had NINE. All were imported from elsewhere. And then there are B-17s, B-25s, Grumman cats, P-47s, Cobras, P-40s, P-38s, all of which, by their nature as imports, had to be exported from somewhere else. We’ve also had imports of Fireflies (from Australia and Sweden), Sea Furies (Germany, the USA and Australia), Tempests and Spitfires (India), Bolingbrokes, Lysanders, Hurricanes and a Lancaster from Canada, recoveries from Russia……..I could go on, but there’s really little point.

The exports that you all moan about were generally offered freely for sale, nobody here was interested. They are private possessions, and who are we to complain if they are bought and sold on an open market. Just be thankful for what we’ve got, far more than when I started becoming involved in the scene in the late-70s, when you were lucky to see a Harvard and a couple of Spitfires at a show.

Hi Mike
I think it’s generation thing.
I was at college before I saw a Mustang fly–1981 I think.
I never ceased to be amazed at what there is today.
We’re lucky, very lucky, both in the sense that these aircraft exist and still fly and that the owners are willing to fly them for our entertainment.
Later
A…

Make that 2x corsairs 2x spitfire mk9’s a mustang and maybe the uk’s best chance of a flying mosquito

What about the Sunderland? I don’t think this has exactly been gracing the air much since it departed to the US.

Sorry, can’t let this one go by, and it’s a bit of a hobby horse of mine I admit, but also a reality check.

Edward Hulton, a British milionare, decided enough was enough, and offered to sell the Sunderland, airworthy. Kermit Weeks was in a queue of ONE to buy. NO-ONE in the UK was interested. Perhaps she’d have been scrapped, or ”saved” from scrapping if the threat had become real, but there was no-one prepared to EITHER put hangarage OR money (not necassarily both required, Edward would have done a deal) in Britain.

Perhaps G-BJHS (as was) hasn’t had as much TLC and flying as she deserves, but at least Kermit puts his money where his (eclectic and to be applauded) tastes are. Without Kermit, we don’t know even if she’d be around at all today.

And lots of people in the US are shown one of the greatest British achievements the age of the flying boat – sad there isn’t a SINGLE british maritime a/c flying in the British isles today. That’s because there isn’t the financial will in Britain, not because of ‘big bad Americans’. :rolleyes:

Chiz.

I think that perceptions are a big part,we are still a very rich [as in quality and quantity,not money]country for vintage aviation.Many many aircraft are now based here but don’t fly particularly frequently and i suppose are not seen out in the open very often.
A few years ago you could almost be guaranteed to see something fly at Duxford on a Sunday in the summer but now unless they are transferring to and from an airshow somewhere else then it seems to be quieter.
I suppose it’s all down to money,insurance and flying hours but the perception is there.
Lost from Duxford [non accidents]Corsair[i think],P40,LA9,Mig 15,Spitfire[s]B25 [i believe is leaving]Skyraider.These are just off the top of my head as i sit here at the computer.
Theres stuff we havent seen from abroad in recent times,Scandanavian historic flight,G50.
I see what Stewart1a saying, but alot of airframes have disappeared for more unfortunate reasons,enough to have their own airdisplay.

I was thinking Europe as well Stewart, honestly I’m not trying to pick holes I really am interested…. From my point of view I spend so long with the same aircraft I’m losing touch with whats going on in the bigger picture.

point was missed again.

Im speaking for europe as a whole, it just feels to me that the number of warbirds in the UK is not growing.