What does “flying for hire” mean? Is a free flight a paid flight? That is, if a pilot flies a plane and receives no reward for it, but does not contribute any flight costs either, has the pilot been paid for flight, and therefore needing CPL rather than PPL?
By: chornedsnorkack - 13th December 2008 at 21:20
Inspired by this thread:
http://www.pprune.org/biz-jets-ag-flying-ga-etc/354399-private-biz-jet.html
By: Moggy C - 12th December 2008 at 22:53
How difficult is this to follow?
If it’s a device to reward a pilot without the necessary licences for their services then they are flying for hire and reward.
If it isn’t. Then it isn’t.
a) My friend comes and stays a couple of nights with me, we go flying. I offer him P1 and he accepts. Shortly he returns home.
b) I find a ppl who is unemployed. I give him the cottage next door to my house as his domicile and take no rent from him. He frequently flies me around Europe in my aircraft.
Can you detect any subtle difference?
Might I suggest you actually ask the question you are seeking an answer to?
Moggy
By: chornedsnorkack - 12th December 2008 at 18:31
usually accepting nothing more from them than a meal or their paying the landing fee.
It’s my aircraft, if I wish to carry the cost and let somebody else fly it that is my prerogative.
But if it was a regular occurrence, and I were to give that pilot free lodging in my house, then the CAA would view the latter as a reward for his flying services.
Well, a host giving a guest free lodging in host´s house, and providing or paying for meals, is perfectly normal. Does it mean that a host must strictly forbid an otherwise qualified guest from operating a plane, and be or hire the whole required crew?
Suppose that the PPL claims that activities of private nature occur during stays, and that free lodging, free meals and valuable presents are rewards in kind for such activities. Presumably, the CAA would retort that both private activities and all the rest are rewards in kind she has received for her flying services?
By: Moggy C - 12th December 2008 at 17:55
But if a guest act as a pilot and does not pay a share of flight costs, whether the owner is a passenger or the other required pilot – can the guest be accused of flying for hire or reward in kind? Can getting where the guest wanted to go, or logging pilot time, or the fun of flying, count as “reward in kind”?
No, that situation is fine.
I have let several ‘guests’ fly my aircraft, usually accepting nothing more from them than a meal or their paying the landing fee.
It’s my aircraft, if I wish to carry the cost and let somebody else fly it that is my prerogative.
But if it was a regular occurrence, and I were to give that pilot free lodging in my house, then the CAA would view the latter as a reward for his flying services.
Moggy
By: chornedsnorkack - 12th December 2008 at 17:50
It is common practice for a flying school to give ‘maintenance flights’ (positioning the acft to the airfield where its 50 / 100 / annual checks are carried out) to competent club members. I have done several myself. This causes the CAA no sleepless nights.
However if it looks like the arrangement is designed to circumvent the need for a proper commercial qualification, then the CAA will drop on it. So if a charter airline gave a PPL a money earning flight (for them), even if they didn’t pay him
So, consider say a completely noncommercial operation that makes no money at all through using the plane and is purely an item of consumption. Not a charter airline, not a flying school, but a private airplane owner who is paying all the costs and not taking money from anyone
If the owner flies, with any guests, as passenger, and hires people to work as pilots, flight engineers, flight attendants etc., then the pilots getting wages explicitly for flying must be CPLs.
But if a guest act as a pilot and does not pay a share of flight costs, whether the owner is a passenger or the other required pilot – can the guest be accused of flying for hire or reward in kind? Can getting where the guest wanted to go, or logging pilot time, or the fun of flying, count as “reward in kind”?
By: Moggy C - 12th December 2008 at 08:38
It’s a grey area as usual.
It is common practice for a flying school to give ‘maintenance flights’ (positioning the acft to the airfield where its 50 / 100 / annual checks are carried out) to competent club members. I have done several myself. This causes the CAA no sleepless nights.
However if it looks like the arrangement is designed to circumvent the need for a proper commercial qualification, then the CAA will drop on it. So if a charter airline gave a PPL a money earning flight (for them), even if they didn’t pay him it could come under scrutiny.
Moggy
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December 12, 2008 at 8:17 am