Who is the most iconic RAF figure of World War Two?

Dowding leading

Many thanks for your votes in our poll to find the most iconic RAF figure of World War Two. At the moment Air Chief Marshal Dowding leads the pack, with Bader, Harris and Gibson following on close behind.

This poll has led to some great discussion about what constitutes an iconic figure, and plenty of debate about the merits of certain candidates, so we have decided to leave the poll open until the end of the year.

Please do cast your vote if you haven’t already, we would like to hear your views.

www.rafbf90.org.uk

everyone involved but if i had to choose one i think it would have to be “stuffy”

Tks that! Agree the principle is the same. What seems to be bedevilling this discussion is the subtle semantic difference between “icon”, and “iconic”!!
Meaningless poll!
But, if we’re going to have one then – as I read the runes – me, Moggy, and Kev35 (a fairly ‘heavy mob’!), seem to have the majority of the weight of opinion on the side of our ERK. I might cavill with Moggy in that his bloke with his arms deep in a Lanc Merlin was clearly a promoted tradesman whereas my bloke was not long out of training and still catching up with how the Air Force worked (we’ve all been there!!!). Pity, ‘cos the SWO will now be looking for him!!
Nevertheless, Tangmere1940 is right to call attention to this. What good does it do?
HTH
Resmoroh

That’s a very good point. It is the adjective which is used in the title of the thread, not the noun. The difference is subtle but important. But it still does not detract from the point some of us are making which is that the whole exercise is pointless, in trying to place any single iconic figure above another.

Tks that! Agree the principle is the same. What seems to be bedevilling this discussion is the subtle semantic difference between “icon”, and “iconic”!!
Meaningless poll!
But, if we’re going to have one then – as I read the runes – me, Moggy, and Kev35 (a fairly ‘heavy mob’!), seem to have the majority of the weight of opinion on the side of our ERK. I might cavill with Moggy in that his bloke with his arms deep in a Lanc Merlin was clearly a promoted tradesman whereas my bloke was not long out of training and still catching up with how the Air Force worked (we’ve all been there!!!). Pity, ‘cos the SWO will now be looking for him!!
Nevertheless, Tangmere1940 is right to call attention to this. What good does it do?
HTH
Resmoroh

Quite right!

I apologise for misreading RAFA for RAFBF.

The principle is still the same though.

Can someone just clear up a minor point? The original #1 post was in the name of the RAF Benevolent Fund (RAFBF). At some stage down the line the RAF Association (RAFA) appears to have become involved. How has this happened?
Now I know the Lord High Chief Panjandrum at RAFA (AVM(Rtd) Grahame Jones) he was the most down-to-earth Air Officer I ever worked under (and he was my Boss on TCW for a few years before he got his Brass Hat!).
Has there been confusion here, or am I missing something?
Clarification requested!
Resmoroh

I think that is certainly the basis of the RAFA vote. Surely the point is, though, whether any one of these (or any other) should be singled out as more revered than any other? At the end of the exercise its a pretty meaningless vote anyhow. But it doesn’t alter the fact that RAFA are conducting an exercise which many here (and elsewhere) seem to think is a somewhat flawed and unfortunate concept.

Absolutely true.

These posts are interesting because they indicate different interpretations of the word “icon”. Apart from its use in computer sciences and its directly religious meaning, I thought it meant a visual representation of a significant individual, who was revered.

On that basis shouldn’t we be looking for highly recognisable individuals from the RAF during WW2 whom a majority revere?

I think that is certainly the basis of the RAFA vote. Surely the point is, though, whether any one of these (or any other) should be singled out as more revered than any other? At the end of the exercise its a pretty meaningless vote anyhow. But it doesn’t alter the fact that RAFA are conducting an exercise which many here (and elsewhere) seem to think is a somewhat flawed and unfortunate concept.

These posts are interesting because they indicate different interpretations of the word “icon”. Apart from its use in computer sciences and its directly religious meaning, I thought it meant a visual representation of a significant individual, who was revered.

On that basis shouldn’t we be looking for highly recognisable individuals from the RAF during WW2 whom a majority revere?

Iconic RAF Figure

I chose Dowding for his sheer vision on setting up the defence system of our country. Its interesting Bader is up there but for him isn’t it more about personal achievment in the RAF?
As a whole I think Dowdings contribution is head and shoulders above Bader’s as his job was far bigger. Isn’t it true also that those that lead without ego achieve so much more? He guietly got on with the job.

Graham

Phew!!!! Can’t answer that one.

If you run your mind set over all actions, operations,theatres,individual efforts of RAF in WW2, to pick an icon, It’s mind boggling. ranging from Europe right out to Far East and beyond, there were thousands of them.

From Winston down to lower ranks, across to folks who came into WW2 from the Dominions, the whole RAF thing was a built upon a complex pyramid of huge personal “Doing their bit for King and country”.efforts.

Everyone pulled together and are all to be admired, my list of Icons would be bigger than this computer could handle and would stuff up the Web Site, so no vote from me on this one.

Bill T.

What is meant by icon – an enduring symbol Or one who is of great attention and devotion.

The comments so far fall into both camps.

The enduring symbol – the erk, the fatigued bomber pilot or the bright young thing in a spitfire.

The person who symbolises it – Bader, Gibson, Park etc.

I personally would suggest Arthur Harris -his image is iconic and enduring.

…and if you want iconic, why not Pilot Officer Prune. How on earth can you judge the importance of one person over another? Iconic equates image. The Mini is iconic as is the Spitfire and a hundred other visuals of the 20th century. Yes, a person can be iconic, but they have to be in the public domain (James Dean or…), but…

Found out today that my Granddad was one of five men wanted by the police during the war. He wasn’t a draft dodger nor a conscientious objector. He wanted to join the army. But he and his mates were tasked with building the Sunderland Flying Boats at Rochester in Kent. Reserved occupation they called it. Locals thought he was a draft dodger and coward. The UK armed forces were warned that if he and his mates tried to join up they were to be arrested. My granddad ended up in court; fined and threatened with prison if he tried to join up again.

In the end he did see action – he was responsible for digging up a UXB single handed. But it wasn’t he who got a medal – it was his C/O in the Home Guard. In the end he gave his one and only medal (Defence Medal) back to the government – disgusted at his treatment.

Leslie Rhodes his my war hero. He never flew with the RAF, but he did build the Short Sunderland. He died in 1989.

Iconic?

Hmmmm – Bader, Gibson or Cunningham would be the only ones the public would have heard of back in the day. So my vote went to Gibson.

But, on reflection, maybe it should have gone to the man who said “Never before in the field of human conflict was so much oweed by so many to so few”.

Personally I fell Leonard Cheshire should be on there. A great figure of the war years who then did so much more in the years after.

Phil103

Your point illustrates perfectly, IMHO, why this “vote” for the iconic figure of the RAF by RAFA is a somewhat flawed concept.

I note that Bader is now not so far behind Dowding. I suppose its how one views “iconic”, and in all probability Bader (rightly or wrongly) becaome more of an “icon” than Dowding. Bader did some amazingly good work for the disabled post-war and for which he was rightly knighted. Whilst he may have been inspirationally heroic at the time of the Battle of Britain much of the Bader story is a much later hyped-up myth that was given further oxygen by the glare of publicity when “Reach For The Sky” (book and the film) were released. I would not place him as an “icon” (horrible word, anyway) ahead of other significant fighter leaders of the period. As has been said….it seems wrong, somehow, to vote on the basis being put forward by RAFA.

Personally I fell Leonard Cheshire should be on there. A great figure of the war years who then did so much more in the years after.

Tangmere, Remoroh – I really agree, hence my post. As I have grown older and wiser!?, I have grown less fond of any of these “best of” polls. They really mean nothing and probably result from the culture of the 21st century you have alluded to.

For my money there were hundreds of icons to whom we should be eternally grateful for contributing to the victory which saved us from subjugation and enabled us to keep our freedom.

Tangmere,
Re yr last para!
I agree entirely and, like you, I am not particularly partial to it and, like you, do not like it greatly. Moreoever, it is demeaning to my (Our!!) ERK. ERKs were always superior (when it came to getting things actually done!) to Air Marshals!
HTH
Resmoroh

I think it is slightly invidious to solicit a poll which will single out one above all others. Not only that, I wonder who drew up the short list of “candidates” to vote for?

Who can say that Bader, for instance, should be any more the icon that the erks already mentioned? Or Sgt Adair who was shot down and killed on 6 November 1940, who is still missing, but whom very few have heard of? Who could stand in front of the Runnymede Memorial and say that none of the 20,000 names there are not equally deserving?

It might be just me, but I kind of feel the RAFA are to an extent falling into the fame/hero worship culture that engulfs us in the early 21st Century. I am not sure that I like it greatly.