Why Advance Tickets for Airshows?

Sadly, just tonight the Shuttleworth Evening show was washed away, with very little flying possible.

Whether or not any ‘ arrangement’ has been put in place for a truncated show, I have not heard.

From memory, I don’t think I paid for parking at Legends last year. It was included in the ticket price, but then I guess it is a TFC show, rather than an IWM one, strictly speaking…

TBH I can’t see why our air force and FAA can’t do a small number of “open house” days as they used to do back in the 50/60s ….no entry charges , and most of the ” infrastructure” provided ” in house”.

Ah yes, the days of getting into Bentwaters for 2/-, and that included a flying programme.:) The only airshows I’ve been to in recent years, were at Clacton and Eastbourne, to see the Lancasters and Vulcan.
We now only do the Friday’s of Duxford airshows. Ok you don’t see all of the flying displays, but it’s enough to keep us entertained. The RAF don’t have enough personnel to run their own events. Even in years gone by
they were run by outside organizers.

I wouldn’t be too bothered at losing the two IWM shows , Flying Legends I’d be very sad to see go.
No angst on my part, it’s a pain rather than a major inconvenience.
I don’t keep a printer and unlike RIAT who allow you to show your ticket on a smart phone or tablet I have to pester a friend or relative to print out the ticket and soppy car pass .
I’m sure IWM did say you can show your ticket on a phone too but what of the car pass ? Do I wave my phone at a parking steward as I cruise by?
So this isn’t one long whinge, I do enjoy the resultant reduced crowds and finally being able to get a seat in the FoD enclosure and a quicker departure from the car park at the end.

So you have options, get an early bird ticket and if you are also a Friend of Duxford you get the ticket near half price, or 2 days for the price of 1 and the hope of at least 1 good day of weather.

If there is no ultimate star act then as DaveB says you’re likely to get a ticket days before which rather negates your angst and argument yet it still allows Duxford to plan traffic and parking and manage cash flow.

Whether people show or not it still costs to put the framework and infrastructure in for the show as well as pay for the acts. Having ticket only allows some balancing of cash flow and income, or are you suggesting you’re happy for Duxford to stop airshows altogether if they do not break even on a pay on the day basis?

Interested as to how you’d plan and run an airshow to a budget and a need to at least break even on your proposal.

As to Duxford fleecing people, you couldn’t be further away from the truth.

Me, I’m happy and proud to support Duxford, it’s airshows and it’s very being. It really is a special and historic place and would be a shame to see things stop due to people’s sense of entitlement and high expectations.

Right. Assuming that is so, you’ll have until midnight on Friday or Saturday to purchase a ticket for the following day thus rendering most of the anti advanced tickets arguments irrelevant.

Then add the parking charge to the ticket price and see if you think the day will be worth it. If not, don’t go.

FFS, Next weekends show will hardly be the gridlock of ‘Two Lancs’ ……………..:rolleyes:

Yes, that’s it. ‘They’ are out to get you.

You know, they only organise airshows so they get an opportunity to fleece people.

Using the old argument that other events music or sporting use advance ticketing doesn’t stack up, particularly with a headline act or team.
Tickets for many music acts will sell out and try getting a Cup Final ticket now, so advance purchase is essential.
I will be surprised if Duxford sells out a few days ahead of this next show.
If the Hawker Typhoon RB396 or a Mosquito (insert your own ‘star’ item here ) appears at a future Duxford show then I will fully understand the advance ticket system .
I have attended past Duxford shows with very unfavourable weather forecasts in the past and reasoned that if it’s a non flyer due to weather I at least have the numerous museum hangars to view and shelter in.
The weather argument doesn’t apply as much to Duxford as somewhere like Biggin or RIAT where there is virtually no undercover protection in the event of a washout.
It’s a cynical policy which we are stuck with now , we love aviation and they know that we need our ‘fix’ particularly after a long winter layoff .
Crowds staying away only effects the warbird operators .
When the public wanted to give some of the big supermarkets a ‘bloody nose’ they rushed off to the albeit s#%t tip operators Lidl and Aldi.
A quick tip to the IWM organisers ( not TFC who treat their crowd with respect ) if you really want to disgruntle and alienate your customers, ban all cars :stupid:

Stopped going to shows years ago … mostly because of cost and the weather gamble if prepaid.
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TBH I can’t see why our air force and FAA can’t do a small number of “open house” days as they used to do back in the 50/60s ….no entry charges , and most of the ” infrastructure” provided ” in house”.

I believe in the US most bases still do this(last one I went to there was in 95) …and I can imagine that most Americans would be aghast at having to pay to see “their tax dollars at work”.

Yes, and the limiting factor at Duxford is parking space, not footfall, so knowing how many cars are coming greatly assists in avoiding the kind of debacle that happened outside the 2 Lancasters show.

Airshows still represent good value for me, parking charge included, so I’ll continue to support them.

Hampden98 you’re missing one of the biggest points I raised earlier which is to have known numbers for traffic management. Don’t underestimate how significant this is (I see and understand this from the inside point of view).

I agree with every word TT put , volunteer led ,smaller charity type airshow maybe should be have some sort of safe guard put in BUT some of the larger more commercial airshows i feel this COULD be a backward step.Maybe the fact there are now so many fewer air displays compared to years ago means that the visitors are being funnelled into fewer display venues so at the moment the amount of spectators will still look quite good.
I just feel that paying in advance and no refund given is not good and not a fair choice.

There seem to be three main arguments for having pre-paid tickets for Airshows.
1) If the weather is bad the show does not make a loss.
Isn’t that a rather cynical approach to making money? While I accept that bad weather does affect ticket sales, preventing the public making a choice is a rather negative approach. I also think most air show goers will just attend on day two of a two day event regardless. That’s what I tended to do. If I planned to attend the Saturday and the weather was forecast better for Sunday (or vice versa) I would change days but I would still go. That option isn’t open to me now. Bit sad to have been forced to attend on a bad day especially if the other day was better. Before I just put this down to bad luck because I at least could make a choice.
Airshows also do not offer a refund if nothing fly’s (although has been mentioned there are exceptions). A 2 minute hop by a Chipmunk does not an airshow make. Much the same as Liam Gallagher clearing his throat does not make a concert.

2) Other venues (Music, Theatre etc) already have pre paid tickets.
This is true and I have purchased pre-paid tickets for most other events and accepted this however, in these cases there will be many dates to choose from (for theatre that could be months or years to choose from) and refunds offered if the event does not happen. Also the event organisers base this on number attending, venue capacity not so they can make money if the event is scrubbed. The last few airshows I have attended were not full to capacity that I could see. They looked a bit spacious compared to some years.

3) The cost of producing the tickets.
Is that a huge cost? I would have thought in the grand scheme of things the cost of printing tickets must be miniscule as opposed to having a massive turnout on a very sunny weekend? With pre-printed tickets you will only ever get the maximum number of tickets sold = the max number of tickets. No sell out days anymore. I was a bit annoyed at one airshow to have to queue to have my pre-printed ticket scanned. Pre-printed tickets can take longer and cause queuing if the systems are not in place to accept them.

I wonder how many people are put off with advance ticket sales. Not by the principle but by the practicalities of organising family life. Is there any data to show a down turn of sales.

Also why advance ticket sales now? Since the 70’s I’ve always paid at the gate. All the above issues have always existed. Seems they have only become an issue the last few years. To some extent caused by Shoreham and insurance increases but that’s hardly the publics fault.

As to admin fees surely these should be completely dropped. Take RIAT. I am charged an admin fee yet I download and print the ticket myself. Maybe I should charge RIAT?

Can I just point out that I am not anti airshow. I have (since 1989 as a ticket purchaser) and will support airshows regardless of tickets and weather.
Thanks for making this an interesting thread.

Having volunteered over a ten year period with the operator of a large collection of active aircraft, which also put on events and shows, I can relate to all of the points well made by TT. Without volunteer effort and commitment few shows would be viable. Few of the GBP realise that volunteers are involved – why should they, for them it’s just a day out.

The smaller shows actually organised by volunteers and often geared to charity fund raising especially deserve support and recognition, but their viability and survival is jeopardised by the increased degree and costs of assessment plus risk mitigation. Electronic payment up front and self printed ticketing seems an inevitability.

As one of said volunteers TT I agree with all you have to say and that it too is applicable to the slightly larger airshows where volunteers are vital to them happening and where margins are tight.

The sense of entitlement of a fair number of people, armchair experts, to dictate the terms on which they buy their tickets and their “expertise” and ability to tell those who actually organise and run the events how to do it better, never ceases to amaze me.

A thought provoking insight TT and all credit for sticking at things for so long!

Just a couple of replies on the above. Firstly, if you are a large institutional airshow organiser – cf Duxford, Cosford etc – they have a large amount of infrastructure in place already. Plus they have larger pockets to absorb losses. Compare and contrast then the volunteer organised shows for charity, of which ours was an example. You cannot obtain weather insurance at a reasonable premium (I seem to remember the premium being about £20k) for an outdoor event – the insurers pretty much HAVE to expect a claim for no-one can predict the weather accurately enough in advance for the underwriters to do otherwise.

So, having run OTG tickets before and been faced with a loss, that loss has to be paid. By whom> The volunteers who gave up their spare time to organise it for charity>? We are not paid and I can assure you it took a good year to put everything in place for a single day – the loo providers, security staff, fencing companies etc – dont all say, sorry you’ve had a bad event we won’t charge you!

Instead of grumbling from a consumers point of view in respect of the smaller shows perhaps a bit of appreciation for those who get off their bums, work hard, give up their time, for a charitable cause to give you a show to go and see (or not – its your choice).

Post Shoreham, the liability for such volunteer organisers has increased to the extent that can be PERSONALLY liable in certain circumstances for things that happen OUTSIDE the event venue. I cannot go onto someone’s private land and order off the bunch of freeloaders watching for free, often hundreds of them, lest they be at risk from the airshow footprint! Yet I am liable if something happens to them. Nuts.

Further, you try booking a Spitfire or Tiger Moth for a flypast for your wedding etc – formerly, no problem, depending on the ‘display’ a small fee to CAA may have been required. Now, at least £500 to CAA, risk assessment, full planning, restricted movements, etc etc makes it prohibitive.

I fully appreciate that some ‘tightening up’ of rules is healthy and necessary. But they have killed the smaller shows, tiny events which pilots used to do for free or for a small fee/at cost to keep their aeroplane viable.

Finally, a word about the GBP. The vast majority are great however, for our last show, the vitriol when tickets sold out was unbelievable – an elderly lady phoned the ticket line INCENSED that we had none available and her sign off line haunts me still ‘well if I can’t go I hope something crashes then’.

The Lancs were BEYOND crosswind limits, they could not leave Coningsby due to safety concerns, some of the GBP outraged that the acts they expected to see did not turn up because of the weather. We have the emails of disgust and outrage that such a thing could happen.

For the foreseeable future we wont be having another show. The last one nearly killed us, our morale hit the floor with stuff like this – despite the fact that 99.9% of the punters enjoyed it and we gave a huge cheque to the air ambulance.

A bit of recognition for the volunteers of the smaller shows wouldnt go amiss, and if advance tickets means they have less work to do and makes their show viable rather than a personal financial risk then fair play to them.

By way of balance, seeing nearly 10,000 people enjoying themselves at an event which we organised (6 shows over ten years) and handing a socking great cheque over to the air ambulance each time made it worthwhile. As did being in a Hughes 500 with the door off, above a displaying Canberra PR9. Magic.

TT

I think only one airshow here this season was advance-only: the RNZAF’s 80th Anniversary Air Tattoo. I don’t believe it’s very common in New Zealand yet.

One show this season was cancelled due to weather and refunds for pre-paid tickers were automatic and, I understand, in full. Not sure how that’s a cynical cashgrab by the organisers!

I look at it a bit differently and think how lucky we are to have IWM airshows, and others too, given the additional expense post Shoreham, additional security costs and many other factors. If it means some changes and a little sacrifice on my behalf, so be it.

I can’t think of too many national and international events that allow me to not pay until I get to the door so I can pick and choose if it suits me.