Why no aircraft divert and jail?

Its so pathetic

Can we please keep personal disputes and sniping off the open forums?

If you really must have a go at one another, use email or PM and spare the rest of us.

Thank you.

GA

Noted

Can we please keep personal disputes and sniping off the open forums?

If you really must have a go at one another, use email or PM and spare the rest of us.

Thank you.

GA

D’oh and I was just about to open another bag of popcorn too… (JOKING LADS !) 😉

Moderator Message

Can we please keep personal disputes and sniping off the open forums?

If you really must have a go at one another, use email or PM and spare the rest of us.

Thank you.

GA

Frankly, I have far better and more productive ways of spending my morning than breaking your post down and commenting on every sentence. I’m more than aware how drugs affect people (I work in music, I’ve seen a lot of it!) You still implied, at least in the way you worded your original reply, that the guy trying to open the door was perfectly in control of what he was doing. It was this assumption and your resorting to sarcasm when questioned I objected to. Had you worded your post more factually rather than emotionally, I might actually have agreed.

I know it’s illegal to try open the doors and endanger an aircraft so yes, technically he is a criminal; that I can see. I’d just rather know the reasons people do such things before assuming. Then again, maybe trying to see the good side of people is generally considered to be a fault these days. Sadly it does occasionally seem to be!

Paul

You will find you were the first person in this thread to mention the word ‘criminal’. No-one else.

I referenced the fact that you can’t fly if you have a criminal record (certainly on board incidents qualify) in several jurisdictions and certainly cannot enter the USA without prior approval and in fact you don’t even need a record to be turfed off flights now a days – in some stupid cases all it takes is to be brown skinned.

You seem to have confused the matters we’re discussing.

No sir – you seemed to have an issue with me concerning my not giving this man (Concerning the incident on the Canadian registered aircraft on it’s way to Toronto) the benefit of the doubt over his clearly ‘criminal act’ and going on and on over an Air Canada incident and the 2nd officer and how terrible it must be, blah, blah, blah.

Let me tell you that anyone who attempts to open a door of an aircraft during flight has committed a criminal act under the Criminal Code of Canada – no matter what the reason. The law is quite clear in this regard. Mental illness if real – is a mitigating factor in sentencing only upon conviction.

In fact I don’t care about the WHY the Toronto bound person and the London bound person committed these (door opening) act’s – just that they never fly again without security unless at their cost. As far as the other 39 unruly passengers on the TC flight: they should receive ‘some’ sanction and not just from this airline but from all UK airlines. Perhaps these passengers should have to pay for a new holiday for the rest of their fellow passengers – holiday’s they most likely ruined both in the air and at the resort. Don’t want to pay up and split the bill? End up on a no fly list until you do pay.

Years and years ago alcohol used to be used as a mitigating factor in convictions and later sentencing. We’re finding in Canada now that with the sigma attached to using impairment (by substances) to ‘explain’ your silly or bizarre law breaking doesn’t function that well at trial today. In fact the defense are more likely to use either diminished capacity or psychotic break as a defense, (true or not). Sometimes good acting does have it’s own rewards I am told – that is until the blood sample results are read out in court.

What I said was he clearly has mental issues and throwing him in jail will help no-one.

I will remind you that inhibiting legal and illegal stimulants can have similar results as this man displayed. In fact there are numerous cases of what one would call ‘mental acts’ on aircraft – that are not mental in nature. Recall the individual a few years back who decided to get up onto a cabin cart and defecate on top of it when he was refused further drink. Of course to a sober you and I it does ‘sound’ as if he is ‘mental’ but in fact he was just a common drunk and spent a bit a time as a result in Miami’s central lock up. The fact that he ‘could’ have been mental is of no concern to the mother and her children who were sitting beside him while he committed this act – just as the passengers having to play security by tying up the SkyService passenger had no way of knowing that airline doors cannot be opened during flight by prying on the handle. How many won’t fly again? Hard to say – but I’m sure many will be agitated when they do fly for several years onwards.

As far as your opinion as to throwing him in jail ‘helping no one’? 1. Jail is used for the protection of society and or punitive punishment and as an example to others who only ‘react’ to authority instead of using common sense or personal control of themselves. 2. Have you ever thought that in Canada we simply don’t throw people in jail with mental issues without an assessment? We currently have procedures that when they are working (not 100% due to funding) people committed to any Regional Detention Center such as the Metro West unit where this person is currently residing – receive a mental assessment by the on call resident within 12 hours of reception – that is the norm.

We’re essentially talking about people trying to open exits during a flight and people can and have done that for a number of reasons.

The issue wasn’t the ‘why’ they did what they did with the doors – it was the act itself and why the airline didn’t show better judgment after the outward bound flight incidents.

you’ve displayed a spectacular lack of knowledge and ignorance towards what we’re actually discussing.

‘That’s someone with a mental illness, not someone who’s a born criminal.’

Human beings are complex creatures and things are not always as clear as they immediately seem. Maybe you haven’t realised this yet, but hopefully you will in time.

Well you’ve saved Governments years and billions of dollars. If we can only put these criminal babies in jail before the age of one we’d all be better off. 🙂

Gents

Cool down please, back to healthy discussions. Goodwill to all men and all that? 😉

Trying being the operative word 🙂

Of course. With around 8psi of pressure holding it in place it ain’t actually going anywhere!

Paul

Ban them from flying and make the tossers come back on a cargo ship. They’d soon think twice about doing the same thing again!

Paul

Yes I’d agree..they put peoples lives in jeopardy

I never labeled him a criminal – that was someone else

You don’t fool around with flight safety or the comfort of other passengers. If you do – ZERO TOLERANCE. I can well guess with a criminal record this man will NEVER fly with a USA based airline and I know Air Canada

You will find you were the first person in this thread to mention the word ‘criminal’. No-one else.

You seem to have confused the matters we’re discussing. If you read back into my post (which you should have done before replying), you’d have noticed I never said he shouldn’t be banned from flying. What I said was he clearly has mental issues and throwing him in jail will help no-one. On the subject of staying on topic, every single word I wrote related directly to the subject we’re discussing. If you wish to accuse me of being a ‘troll’, at least understand that discussion first. You’re swaying way off the original point.

If you can’t respond without resorting to sarcasm, quit now, because you won’t achieve anything other than making yourself look a bit silly. We’re essentially talking about people trying to open exits during a flight and people can and have done that for a number of reasons. Not only have you contradicted yourself, but you’ve displayed a spectacular lack of knowledge and ignorance towards what we’re actually discussing. Human beings are complex creatures and things are not always as clear as they immediately seem. Maybe you haven’t realised this yet, but hopefully you will in time.

Attempt to tear my posts apart with as many quotes as you like, but at least support them with something meaningful and well thought out, because nothing you’ve written so far has been.

Paul

which is precisely why you shouldn’t be posting it as an example on a forum and pointing out what a criminal he is.

1. I never labeled him a criminal – that was someone else.
2. So I guess you do not read any newspapers or read any news websites. Must be nice to have the time to wait for the end of trials…
3. You don’t have to be a criminal to be banned from flying.
4. Your opinion is noted, however poorly it is received.

We’ve seen two examples semi-recently of Air Canada first officers losing it during a flight and having to be removed from the aircraft and their positions. These people have my deepest sympathy as they’ll most likely never fly again.

You must have missed the discussion concerning airline security and SLF. We are not discussing metal illness and or psychotic breaks by cabin staff. You want that discussion – open your own thread.

Their lives are pretty much shattered and will take an immense amount of rebuilding, and no-one who’s worked hard to get to where they are really deserves that.

What are you on about? Dragging in ANOTHER subject/thread/topic into this discussion is considered trolling. Find your own thread on Air Canada issues and or mental illness please.

If you can’t say for certain this guy was any different, don’t assume he is.

Perhaps you’d like to run a country as you seem to enjoy throwing your weight around? I’d suggest Somalia as they are having a spot of trouble. 🙂

While it makes headlines, maybe we shouldn’t forget that it is physically impossible to open a door in flight (at altitude) unless you’re superman…
Not that such an act would be excusable, or shouldn’t warrant further attention from a couple of law enforcement officers / psychiatrists.

And in any case, that’s also why tie wraps are for…

Diverting for that is the passenger can be controlled is just an annoyance to everyone.

With all do respect; we don’t know yet what his ‘issue'(s) are as that that has not been reported in the press. We can ‘asume’ from the article he has mental issues but for all we know, drink or drugs (or both) may have been part of the problem where by his inhibitions broke down.

You’re absolutely right and I agree entirely, which is precisely why you shouldn’t be posting it as an example on a forum and pointing out what a criminal he is. We’ve seen two examples semi-recently of Air Canada first officers losing it during a flight and having to be removed from the aircraft and their positions. These people have my deepest sympathy as they’ll most likely never fly again. Their lives are pretty much shattered and will take an immense amount of rebuilding, and no-one who’s worked hard to get to where they are really deserves that. If you can’t say for certain this guy was any different, don’t assume he is.

Paul

That’s someone with a mental illness, not someone who’s a born criminal. Throwing him in jail for several decades isn’t going to help him or anyone else. It really isn’t quite the same situation as people getting drunk and acting like twats as seems to be the case with the Thomas Cook flight. It’s nothing like the same, in fact.

Paul

With all do respect; we don’t know yet what his ‘issue'(s) are as that that has not been reported in the press. We can ‘asume’ from the article he has mental issues but for all we know, drink or drugs (or both) may have been part of the problem where by his inhibitions broke down. Too soon to tell until the courts deal with his second appearance. Either way he should NEVER fly alone except under ‘escort’ conditions at his cost. I’ll post any details in the future as to what is stated in the hearing.

Here is the result of only ONE man being stupid and now he is paying the price and I’m sure he will end up being charged cost’s by the court for the divert and overnight stay by the other passengers.

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/560738

You don’t fool around with flight safety or the comfort of other passengers. If you do – ZERO TOLERANCE. I can well guess with a criminal record this man will NEVER fly with a USA based airline and I know Air Canada, West Jet and the other charter companies will have him on a no fly list so it’s going to be interesting how he is ever going to fly back home on holiday to his land of birth. 🙂 Perhaps he’ll take a ship to the UK and fly Thomas Cook? LOL

That’s someone with a mental illness, not someone who’s a born criminal. Throwing him in jail for several decades isn’t going to help him or anyone else. It really isn’t quite the same situation as people getting drunk and acting like twats as seems to be the case with the Thomas Cook flight. It’s nothing like the same, in fact.

Paul

Here is the result of only ONE man being stupid and now he is paying the price and I’m sure he will end up being charged cost’s by the court for the divert and overnight stay by the other passengers.

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/560738

You don’t fool around with flight safety or the comfort of other passengers. If you do – ZERO TOLERANCE. I can well guess with a criminal record this man will NEVER fly with a USA based airline and I know Air Canada, West Jet and the other charter companies will have him on a no fly list so it’s going to be interesting how he is ever going to fly back home on holiday to his land of birth. 🙂 Perhaps he’ll take a ship to the UK and fly Thomas Cook? LOL

Similar thing happened to me on a holiday flight from Tenerife, when I had the misfortune to be sat in front of a party drunken golfers heading back to GLA. Drinking, singing, shouting, swearing, kicking and smacking the backs of seats etc. Eventually I asked the stewardess if it would be OK to borrow one of their clubs and could I shove it where the sun doesn’t shine, sadly she didn’t think such an action conformed to standard inflight regulations. :rolleyes:

But in all seriousness, this lot should have deported on the slow boat back home and made to work their passage. The fact a child of the party was able to assault an adult passenger speaks volumes. Chav Airways indeed ! 😮

Ban them from flying and make the tossers come back on a cargo ship. They’d soon think twice about doing the same thing again!

Paul