October 31, 2021 at 2:10 am
Perhaps well-known by the experts here but I found it interesting.
According to Eric Brown…..”Early in 1944, Lt. Gen. Jimmy DooLittle, who had recently taken over command of the 8th USAAF visited the RAE to ask for a series of hands-ontests on the three USAAF escort fighters, the P-38 Lightning, P-47C Thunderbolt, and the P-51B Mustang. He was worried about the heavy losses suffered by the fighters on high cover over Flying Fortresses. Tests were required into the handling behaviour of the aircraft at high speeds up to their tactical(maneuvering) and critical(loss of control) Mach numbers. The tests revealed that the Lightning and Thunderbolt fell well of the tactical Mach numbers of the Me109 and the FW190.As a result of the RAE report, Doolittle asked to be supplied solely with P-51’s which proved to be the finest fighter in the European war theatre.”
By: John Green - 18th February 2022 at 17:08
Further to the discussion concerning the ‘birth pangs’ of the Anglo American P51 long range fighter. Page 123 of Paul Kennedy’s ‘Engineers of Victory’ writes quote: “Then, inexplicably to Freeman (Sir Wilfred) the scheme (to build the Mustang in America) founded. Sheer obstructionism on the American side now slowed down the mass production of the Merlin powered Mustang”.
“What was less understandable was the sheer relentless anti Britishness of key members of the all powerful Air Production Board under the stiff necked Major General Oliver Echols. Harry Hopkins (Roosevelt special adviser) was only half joking when he told Wilfred Freeman that many Americans believed they naturally flew better than the British and always built better planes than the British”.
Essentially the American attitude was, “not invented here”. The more restrained official historians merely point out ” the story of the P51 came close to representing the costliest mistake made by the U.S Airforce in WW2.
By: Duggy1 - 5th February 2022 at 12:05
“
P-51Bs finally reached squadron service in October 1943, when the USAAF 354th Fighter Group in England was equipped with the variant. This assignment was something of a “snafu”, however, since the 354th was part of the Ninth Air Force, which was focused on ground attack. Apparently the brass failed to get the word that the Merlin Mustangs were a different breed from the ground-attack Allison Mustangs. The USAAF Eighth Air Force had begun daylight raids into Germany in early 1943, but by the fall of that year had been forced by murderous combat losses to give up such missions until long-range escort fighters became available. The Eighth desperately needed the new Mustangs, and so the 354th was immediately ordered to operate in support of Eighth Air Force long-range bomber missions, even though the group remained in the Ninth’s chain of command.
P-51Bs began flying fighter sweeps over Europe in early December 1943, and were escorting bombers on raids by the middle of the month. On 13 December, Lieutenant Glenn Eagleston drew first blood with the P-51B, damaging a Messerschmitt Bf 110 during a raid on Kiel. Eagleston would eventually become the top ace of the Ninth Air Force, claiming a total of 10.5 victories.
On 16 December, Lieutenant Charles Gumm claimed the P-51B’s first actual kill, knocking a Messerschmitt Bf 110 out of the sky over Bremen. The door was being closed on the days of the Luftwaffe savaging unescorted bomber formations. That same month, the RAF formally received its first Mustang III, flying with RAF Number 65 Squadron, and would quickly equip other RAF squadrons with the new aircraft. RAF Mustang IIIs would be in principle dedicated to ground attack, but they participated in escort duties while the USAAF built up strength in the new fighter.
On 11 January 1944, Major James H. Howard of the 354th was on an escort mission over Germany in his P-51B, named “Ding Hao”. Howard was a mild-mannered but highly experienced pilot who had scored 6.5 victories against the Japanese with the American Volunteer Group in China. Howard had become separated from his flight when he saw a group of German fighters attacking a formation of B-17s. Although he was alone, Howard apparently regarded this as a “target-rich environment” instead of a threat, and dived into the fight without hesitation. He quickly shot down three German fighters, and then for the following half hour engaged in duels with the remaining Luftwaffe pilots. By the time the fight was over all his guns had jammed but one. With these kills, he became the first Mustang ace, and was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.
By early 1944, other USAAF fighter groups were forming up in England. Two Ninth AF fighter groups, the 357th and 363rd, were equipped with the type, though the 357th FG was traded to the Eighth AF in exchange for the 358th FG, which flew the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt. This exchange was apparently mutually satisfactory, since the Eighth AF needed P-51Bs for long-range fighter escorts, while the Ninth AF could make good use of the big, tough, and more heavily armed P-47 for ground attack.
Eighth AF fighter groups were also receiving new P-51Bs directly, beginning with the elite 4th FG. The 4th was the oldest and most experienced fighter group in the Eighth AF, having been formed out of three RAF “Eagle” squadrons, composed of American pilots in British service. The commander of 4th FG, Colonel Donald J.M. Blakeslee, had been leading 354th FG P-51Bs since their arrival. On his return to his own group, he promised his superiors that his pilots would be operational with the new fighter within 24 hours. They were all flying with the type by the next day, 25 February 1944.”
From here — http://www.airvectors.net/avp51_2.html#m2
By: dhfan - 4th February 2022 at 11:36
It’s not rose-coloured glasses with the Spitfire.
It was designed as a short-range interceptor so why would it be expected to have a long range?
By: J Boyle - 4th February 2022 at 07:27
But when (I wouldn’t say ‘rejected’, rather ignored) it did not have the Merlin engine. Huge difference between a “B” and “A” models.
If you read the history, the USAAF thought it did not need another fighter since it had the P-38 and P-47…Plus the eventually cancelled P-60 on the way.
And that’s true. The AAF did not need another fighter without great performance at altitude and range. It had plenty of those.
Also, one needs to remove the rose coloured glasses when looking at the Spitfire. It did not have the range to do the job the Mustang handily did. Even the RAF preferred the MK IV Mustang on long distance ops.
The head of fighter development and testing for the AAF, bluntly stated that in terms of range, duration and stability, the Spitfire simply would not have met American requirements.
By: John Green - 2nd November 2021 at 10:18
Let us not forget that this long distance escort fighter named and engined by the British, the Mustang, was the fine result of Anglo /American co-operation that, in the beginning was rejected by the American air establishment.
By: bazv - 31st October 2021 at 11:32
That may well have been a factor but the P51 had quite a few advantages over the other 2 types.
The P51 carried a lot of fuel (440 USG ?) and could easily do Berlin (and beyond) and back and once fitted with Merlin Engines it had the performance at Medium/High Altitude to stay with most aircraft that the Luftwaffe was operating.
Its fuel consumption would have been much lower than the P38/P47 and of course it was much more agile in combat than the P38.
The P51 production cost was approx 2/3rds of a P47 😉 and it was a great all rounder of an aircraft.