Willie Walsh and the A380

shudder to think how many pax Ryanair would shoehorn into an A380!!!!

They’d probably install turnstiles on the loo doors and have a branch of Aldi on the lower deck.

The only way Ryanair will buy the A380 (if they start buying wb’s that is) is if Airbus re start the plans to offer the seats seats shown in this Pic (the onse on the right;) ) With those they could probably stuff in about 1000-1200 PAX enough to probably earn their aircraft a zip code 🙂 And with no seat allocation I bet there would be atleast a few brawls for who gets to sit on the top floor!!

I shudder to think how many pax Ryanair would shoehorn into an A380!!!! 😮

They’d probably install turnstiles on the loo doors and have a branch of Aldi on the lower deck. :diablo:

The A380 wasn’t designed to win beauty contests.

I think if you neglect the front angle view of the A380 it is a pretty good looking jet , It just appears bloated (sorta like a big forehead) when you see the FAT NOSE and forehead…. The front is definately better on the 747 and that is why it is such a good looking aircraft but the A380 is in no way bad looking IMO . Personally I kinda like the looks speacially in a side shot like the first one I posted with the first BA A380 pic!!

I think it looks excellent in some colours and not so in good in others 😉

Just looking at that pic sends shivers down my spine!!

The A380 wasn’t designed to win beauty contests.

Which is just as well, really. :diablo:

The 787 looks a bit better with the new colour scheme 🙂 But the B777-300er is the bizz (got to admit I really like the 777) 😀
And for the A380 well some one must like it, just not me :p

not quite sure about the 787

Since we are talking about liveries here is how the contendors will look –

BA 787-8

BA 7773ER

BA A380 –

For what it’s worth, I think that the LR variants of the B777 would be a sensible proposition for BA

I would think that the 777-300ER would be a better proposition given that they will most likely replace some of their 744’s with the T-7 while using the 748I or A380 to replace the rest. I seriously doubt that tBA will replace all of their 744’s with the 748I but will FRAGMENT their fleet (like so many other 744 operators have done) . I Dont see them ordering more then 2 dozen VLA’s . The rest would be T-7’s or A350-1000’s (but those are way out) . If they go for a all boeing fleet IMO this is what they will do –

20-25 777 ( mainly 300ER’s)
20-24 747-8I
30-35 787’s ( probably split between the -8 and -9 and maybe a few -10’s if its announced before thy make a descision)

The reason I think they’ll go for 30-35 787’s is because going into the future they wil most likely want to replace their 777200ER’s with either the 787-9 or maybe the 787-10 as the dreamliner offers much better economics . Most of these aircrafts will be options as BA doesnt need to replace their 7772ER fleet anytime soon ( the first 7772ER is only 10 years old) . In such a case they would want a 787-8 early (2010-2013) to replace its 20 odd 767-300ER’s and will wait for the -9’s and -10’s as they dont need them right away.

The 747-8I’s will replace some of their High yeild routes such as LHR-JFK while the T7W will take care of the others.

All in all I expect a 30-40 aircraft order , with about 30-40 options !!

If BA go for a mixed fleet then they’d replace their 767’s with the A330 (but not all ) , and buy the 787-9 (available atleast 3-4 years early) to replace 7772ER’s and some of the 767s (upgrade for growth) . They’d buy the T-7W and will also go ahead for the A380 (maybe 6-8) .

I really dont see them going for an ALL-AIRBUS fleet !!

I did say it was an “apparent strategy”, you know! 🙂

Agreed.

This would be consistent with BA’s apparent “Boeing for medium to long-haul, Airbus for the rest” strategy.

Personaly, I don’t think there is any preset preference for Boeing: Longhaul, Airbus: Shorthaul.
I think thats just the way it happened to work out. The 744 was a natural replacement for the 747 classics and the 777 offered great expansion prospects as well as taking over routes that weren’t filling 744s all year round while promising better economics than the then current A340 lineup.

Which could also tip the balance toward the 787 if it is being considered.

Agreed.

This would be consistent with BA’s apparent “Boeing for medium to long-haul, Airbus for the rest” strategy.

That A330 does look nice, doesn’t it? 🙂

For what it’s worth, I think that the LR variants of the B777 would be a sensible proposition for BA given the substantial infrastructure and support investment that BA has already made in the B777, the available pool of type-rated crews and engineers, etc.

Which could also tip the balance toward the 787 if it is being considered.

The 787 will supposedly have a 777 type cockpit that will allow a cross training of only a few days for the pilots. A small saving. Is it enough to win out though?

That A330 does look nice, doesn’t it? 🙂

For what it’s worth, I think that the LR variants of the B777 would be a sensible proposition for BA given the substantial infrastructure and support investment that BA has already made in the B777, the available pool of type-rated crews and engineers, etc.

Would BA be willing to bet their entire 767 fleet on the A330 just because it would be available 1 or maybe 2 years before the 787? What if they decide to UPGRADE to higher capacity and choose the 787-9/A350-8 ? IMO they will not let go of the 787 and A350 as both the aircrafts offer better economy and higher comfort and both of them OFFER GENUINE 9 ABREAST which is good to have even if you dont use them going into the FUTURE (for growth) . I still firmly believe that they MAY still order an All Boeing fleet (for now on) and then later order the A380. If the A380 is out then their 744 fleet would not be replaced completely by the 747-8I but by a combo of 747-8I and 777W and the Capacity shortfall would be made up by increasing freq. into bigger routes such as LHR-JFK etc etc .

Now I may be wrong here but I will make the prediction that BA will definately order the 787 or 350 !!

Here are some I had on my HD of BA 330-200 and BA 787-8 from Modified photos site

Cheers for That , A330 looks stunning , 🙂 not quite sure about the 787

There are economical reasons for not going with the 380, The biggest and most important to BA , is the ability to fill it with passengers , even on their High density routes , It better to send a 747 three quarters full than sending the A380 Half full and with a lot of its route they would be looking to combine a couple of flights just for a single A380 flight , to me and you this would make a lot of sense but to airlines not so

My Predictions
The A330 maybe a good choice for the 767 , It would give BA a bit of flexibility, that they don’t have with the 767, favourite
The A340 has never even been an option for BA , fallen at first fence
The A350 as you Said Sandy unknown to everyone , but to me Mr Walsh seems to be very Keen on the aircraft Outsider
A380 Outsider (wasnt even going to rate it)
All Airbus Fleet pretty slim

B777 Certainty
B787 still unknown outsider
B747 -(800 or what ever its called) Updated version of the 400, which BA have experience A good bet favourite

All Boeing Fleet Pretty slim

If you take a look how the fleet is split the majority of short haul is Airbus and the Long haul Boeing and I think that may be they way it stays with the only addition being the 330 in the medium to long haul

What Bemused55 said:-

Just for the record.

BA send there 767’s to places like.
Tanazania
Uganda
Philidelphia
Ghana
Nairobi
Toronto
Dubai
New York (JFK and Newark)
Detroit
Washington-Baltimore
Zambia
Chicago

Ok its not exactly London-Singapore everyday, but to say BA dont send there 76’s far is a mis-leading statement.

I stand corrected!

I wasn’t aware the 767 fleet is tasked to such destinations. I was beginning to think they only did intra european and mid range flights with the occasional long haul.

Just for the record.

BA send there 767’s to places like.
Tanazania
Uganda
Philidelphia
Ghana
Nairobi
Toronto
Dubai
New York (JFK and Newark)
Detroit
Washington-Baltimore
Zambia
Chicago

The A350,787 will offer greater expansion capability aswell due to being geniune 8000+nm aircrafts , they will enable BA to add more freq. on some long range routes aswell .

How can a single man, like Mr. Walsh, have such a big word in the type decision, that it comes down to his personal flavour? I mean, there are pretty straightforward technical, operational, financial, etc criteria for buying one type or another, right?

Walsh will do whats best for BA , if airbus offers a better deal interms of slots and economics then he’ll go with them and vice versa for boeing .

To be fair, there is a business case for the A330 for a quicker solution, if BA needs jets sooner than the 787.

That depends really on many factors such as –

* When BA orders – the 330/340 is sold out till mid-late 2009 and the F version launch will surely eat into that.

* Boeing probably has some slots it can work out in the 2010-2011 time frame (wide rumours about boeing having some slots up its sleeve for BA and AA)

* boeing has come out clearly and said that they will up the Production rate for the 787 because of more then expected demand.

What Bemused55 said:-

What I mean to say is, there is little motivation to switch to Airbus for the long haul fleet.
But as a 767 replacement the A330 is very possible.
Having said that, BA do not often send their 767s very far. A330s might not be all that economic for 1:1 replacements as they are long range cruisers (their wings being designed for such).

Just for the record.

BA send there 767’s to places like.
Tanazania
Uganda
Philidelphia
Ghana
Nairobi
Toronto
Dubai
New York (JFK and Newark)
Detroit
Washington-Baltimore
Zambia
Chicago

Ok its not exactly London-Singapore everyday, but to say BA dont send there 76’s far is a mis-leading statement.

How can a single man, like Mr. Walsh, have such a big word in the type decision, that it comes down to his personal flavour? I mean, there are pretty straightforward technical, operational, financial, etc criteria for buying one type or another, right?

To be fair, there is a business case for the A330 for a quicker solution, if BA needs jets sooner than the 787.
There could be a viable case for the A380 too, depending on a few things.
The A350 is far too obscure to tell yet.

The 777 is simply the best option for expanding the longhaul fleet and replacing the older 777s. Basically because the A340 cannot match it, regardless of bags full of goodies.
I’m not all that sure about the 748i.

It remains to be seen if Walsh will do the economical thing or prove some critics right and switch BA to all Airbus.

How can a single man, like Mr. Walsh, have such a big word in the type decision, that it comes down to his personal flavour? I mean, there are pretty straightforward technical, operational, financial, etc criteria for buying one type or another, right?