If the wingman of a two-plane formation flight overtakes a third, unrelated aircraft and collides with it, who’s to blame? Is the wing leader responsible, assuming the wingman has his eyes on the leader and not ahead of him?
The reason I’m asking is that I witnessed a mid-air today at the Dutch coast near Wassenaar (north of The Hague). Two aircraft, one carrying a banner, one filming the first, had a collision with a third aircraft flying in front of them (also carrying a banner). The wingman hit the third aircraft with its landing gear.
This was the situation seconds before impact:
I recall the banner-less aircraft (Cessna) was going faster than the rest and climbing, possibly trying to get a nice shot of the aircraft with banner furthest to the right in the photo and oblivious to the other aircraft (furthest left), with which it collided.
For some moments both aircraft were interlocked and lost a lot of height in a lefthand turn. Then by a miracle they separated again. The stricken aircraft, which was hit from behind and above, made an emergency landing. Photos of it can be seen here:
A juicy detail is that the leader of the two aircraft flying formation was carrying a banner of the Dutch Socialist Party (SP) and the aircraft its wingman hit was carrying a banner of the Christian-Democratic party (CDA). This Wednesday there are elections in Holland and both parties are fiercly battling eachother… reaching new heights today clearly! :dev2:
Anyway, I’m just glad nobody got hurt. My heart skipped a beat when I saw this happning over a crowded beach then turning back towards the crowd in a seemingly out-of-control turn…! A miracle they didn’t crash! 😮
By: Skyraider3D - 10th September 2012 at 11:50
The third aircraft (the one which was hit from above/behind) was not part of the same flight. They just happened to be at the same place at the same time.
By: Arabella-Cox - 10th September 2012 at 10:41
Was it a planned 3 aircraft formation and did they do a briefing beforeforehand?
By: Skyraider3D - 10th September 2012 at 09:06
I’m just interested in a general understanding of the rules and I assume they’re not all too different in the UK and Holland. I know some of you are not keen on speculations, but I worked on air crash reconstruction animations in the past (for US law suits) and have an interest in these things. Now I’m just trying to make sense of what I saw last weekend. You are welcome to browse any other thread on this forum if this one annoys or offends you. And naturally I am very happy that all turned out fine, so I reckon there’s no harm done discussing this.
27vet, thanks a lot, that’s an interesting document. The bit I had in mind is
9.3.2 Close formation leading is defined as being totally responsible for all aspects of the
safety, terrain clearance, positioning and handling for a number of aircraft that are
formating in close proximity to the lead aircraft.
…but it may not be appropriate in this case, seeing as the photo ship was flying ahead (and perhaps not “close” enough?).
I wonder though… the guy in the dark-coloured Piper appears to be gesturing (in warning?), next the Cessna eases off the power. Misunderstood signalling? (if the pilot looked at the Piper in the first place)
Another video which appears to be showing a last minute warning signal from the Piper pilot: http://nos.nl/video/416640-beelden-vliegtuigbotsing-vanuit-cockpit.html
By: Bruce - 10th September 2012 at 07:52
The AAIB? Not in Holland surely?
By: Arabella-Cox - 9th September 2012 at 23:32
One of many things the AAIB will be looking at :
CAP 403
Flying Displays and Special Events: A Guide to
Safety and Administrative Arrangements
Goto section 9 on Formation flying.
By: Dave Wilson - 9th September 2012 at 23:19
Which is the job of the AAIB.
By: Skyraider3D - 9th September 2012 at 21:36
Not interested in fingerpointing but understanding the situation so it can be prevented in the future.
By: Dave Wilson - 9th September 2012 at 21:26
Whoever was at fault is by the by; I’m just thankful that everyone survived. The finger pointing can start later.
By: Skyraider3D - 9th September 2012 at 21:18
From my perspective it looked like the Cessna photoship was flying around the banner-carrying Piper aircraft (making it the leader?). The first video suggests different. The second video shows they actually appear to have made an S-turn rather than a 180. I saw the action against the sun and I’d have sworn they were coming back to me. Funny how your point of view makes things look different than they were. Still… it’s pretty clear who flew into who!
Alternative link for the second video: http://nos.nl/video/416584-beeld-van-de-vliegtuigbotsing-wassenaar.html
Very, very lucky guys…!
By: Propstrike - 9th September 2012 at 21:00
Better link here.
http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/2012/09/spcdavliegtuigcrash_de_beelden.html
By: Propstrike - 9th September 2012 at 18:33
I
The reason I’m asking is that I witnessed a mid-air today at the Dutch coast near Wassenaar (north of The Hague). Two aircraft, one carrying a banner, one filming the first, had a collision with a third aircraft flying in front of them (also carrying a banner). The wingman hit the third aircraft with its landing gear.
You refer to a wingman, but then say the Cessna was the formation leader ( ie photoship :confused:
Whatever, it sounds as though the Cessna failed to keep a look out and rammed the other Cub. One cannot really be expected to maintain a good lookout directly behind, ie the Cub pilot. The may have been a bit of competitive manoeuvering between the two banner aircraft, but that is only conjecture.
More important though, is the great good fortune which prevented two fatal crashes, which could so easily have occurred.
By: Skyraider3D - 9th September 2012 at 00:45
From-the-cockpit video just released:
http://www.rtl.nl/xl/u/ab597914-3221-4409-9a3f-26be08125f7b
Note the guy in the dark-coloured Piper gesturing!
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September 8, 2012 at 11:59 pm