worms in a can – what is a WARBIRD?

Are jets actually not allowed at Legends, or is it just that none have ever fitted the bill? Is it a bit like those exclusive gentlemens clubs in London which have been subjected to legal action because they don’t allow women members?

Flood

You are quite correct, jets aren’t allowed to participate at Flying Legends. I believe turboprops might be frowned upon too, so if the plans to get a Gannet back in the air come to fruition I doubt it’ll get an invite either.

Who ever said that Legends was a warbird airshow I believe that the title would have given it away for those of you that could but see it ” Flying Legends ” all the aircraft at legends are exactly that legends no matter what they are so people lighten up and lets enjoy what it is, as for jets well they might be legends in their own right but lets keep them where they belong de-icing runways 🙂

Aircrafts which after serving with Armed forces were operated by Civilians

Possibly, it used to be pre 1950.

This begs the question, what is vintage? (Flypast I believe says anything that began service pre 1960).

That’s okay for now, but in 20 years time will that become pre-1980?

Alex

Pure and simple…a warbird is something sold or adopted into military service (armed or not). Current military aircraft are warbirds.

Of course the above is my personal opinion and as we all know, I am the world’s leading expert on my opinion!

So if Jets aren’t allowed at Legends, yet someone wanted to bring a wartime veteran ME262, Bell P-59, or Meteor, they would be turned down, even though these were WARTIME jets?
Hmmmmm…..that ain’t right…

M

Do you have one? Does it fly?
There are no complete WWII Meteors in existance bar the prototype; are you talking of Korean veterans?
There are no genuine Me262s flying, just the replica(s – when it happens).
Bell P59, veteran? Hmm. On which front did they see service?

Are jets actually not allowed at Legends, or is it just that none have ever fitted the bill? Is it a bit like those exclusive gentlemens clubs in London which have been subjected to legal action because they don’t allow women members?

Flood

I’m intregued by the idea that the Flying Legends airshow may have some role in defining the term warbird. :rolleyes:

It’s an airshow which launches a selection of types it chooses, including a Lockheed 12, Connie and 6 Rapides (not Dominies). A Cosmic Wind would be pushing it too. It is primarily a warbird show, but it’s neither the only nor an exclusive one.

Reminds me rather of Ralph Laurien trying to tell the UK Polo clubs they had to pay copyright! 😀 Cart goes after horse.

Having worked for two magazines with Warbird in the title, I’m happy enough with the definition of ‘an ex-military aircraft, usually active, no longer in it’s primary use.’ But that’s open to discussion if you like, as well.

The Martin Mars, Black 6 and Me262s are all warbirds to me. But then so’s the Sopwith Pup. An F-4 Phantom is, in private hands or on display, but a Harrier or a Tornado aren’t. I’m an includer rather than an excluder.

However some people are able to split hairs on this one to the end of time. Life’s too short.

Cheers!

Hmmmmm…..that ain’t right…

You’ll allow them at the airshow you organise then.

So if Jets aren’t allowed at Legends, yet someone wanted to bring a wartime veteran ME262, Bell P-59, or Meteor, they would be turned down, even though these were WARTIME jets?
Hmmmmm…..that ain’t right…M

They may make a concession for the 262, but there again they may not

So if Jets aren’t allowed at Legends, yet someone wanted to bring a wartime veteran ME262, Bell P-59, or Meteor, they would be turned down, even though these were WARTIME jets?
Hmmmmm…..that ain’t right…

M

The Dakota/C-47 isn’t a warbird?
Tell that to Fl. Lt. David Lord, VC, 271 Squadron.

I quite agree. Tell it to the six other crew members who died with him and received absolutely NO recognition.

Regards,

kev35

the C47 isn’t necessarily a Warbird (although the “Puff the Magic Dragon” Gunship version is) but is a Vintage or Classic.

That’s how I personally define these things, and not saying it’s right!

JC

The Dakota/C-47 isn’t a warbird?
Tell that to Fl. Lt. David Lord, VC, 271 Squadron.

Thanks guys – so far if I may sum up the small majority …

the ‘war’ bit means ex-military where both elements apply … ie. ‘ex’ means was (not is) in military use and ‘military’ doesn’t necessarily require “combat” or front-line use
the ‘bird’ bit means it flies … so the answer to my question is a B36 a warbird is NO and Black 6 is not a warbird
any engine … although some like to talk of jet warbirds which is a bit tautological

I would say that if those criteria are all applied then I’m not sure if a replica (eg: one of the US-made 262s) or a new build (one of the new FW190s) is a warbird – does the particular aircraft/warbird have to have been in military use or just the type?

And is this issue of age (rather like cars) at all pertinent?

Surely a Warbird if taken in the literal meaning is any aircraft which goes to war. So a Tornado GR.4 is a Warbird.

We can break this down into Current Warbirds and Vintage Warbirds.

This begs the question, what is vintage? (Flypast I believe says anything that began service pre 1960).

I think jets have a perfect right to be warbirds – seems daft to limit it to piston engined aircraft. I’m not sure if i’d go as far as to say that a 2/3 scale replica spit was a warbird… that’s stretching it a little bit.

I’d go along with everyone one else who says that a warbird is an ex-military aircraft.

Cheers!

Its whatever people think it is.
Harvards and T28s in war-like colour schemes, Messengers and Staggerwings, even those homebuilt things purporting to be replica Spitfires just because they bare a vague likeness (wings, tails, colour scheme, etc…).
Legends doesn’t allow jets so everyone assumes that this means that jets are not warbirds: wonder how they’d have felt about G-SPIT in its infamous red scheme?

Flood

I’ve always classed a Warbird as any ex combat aircraft being operated in civilian hands.

By “Combat” I mean a machine designed to take the fight to the enemy and equipped with the means to do so – so in my mind, the C47 isn’t necessarily a Warbird (although the “Puff the Magic Dragon” Gunship version is) but is a Vintage or Classic.

That’s how I personally define these things, and not saying it’s right!

JC

I’ve always taken it to mean any airworthy ex-military historic aircraft now in private ownership, which I believe is the generally accepted term. Of course in recent years there have been more jets, the RAF sold off loads of Hunters and JPs, and more recently the Gazelle helicopters. I agree with Corsair116b I still think it’s wise to catagorise between what many would describe as “pure” warbirds (piston engined), and jet warbirds which will see the ranks increase as older jets are pensioned off.

First recorded use of the term was a book about W.W.I published in the 1920s, IIRC.

So the term’s shifted at least once.