Would the B-36 really have bombed Germany?

Fairford and Greenham Common both received B36 units from the early 1950’s onwards, in fact Greenham took the last deployment of a B-36 to Britain in September 1957.

September 1957 sounds a likely date when I saw my B-36, that year saw a warm summer and it was probably at the end of the school summer holiday, it would have been the first year that I was allowed alone up to our train bridge, would anyone let a 6 year old do that now, definately not, mind you that place was the local meeting place for every kid in the area and anyway, my older brother and his gang were usually lurking in the area ready to kick ass if neccesary, and they did sometimes, but I mustn’t grass up a now esteemed chartered accountant.
My other thought is that it may have been off to a Battle of Britain airshow possibly Finningley which is on the Notts/Yorks boundary.
That year I went to Syerston and it wasn’t there, I know I never saw one at an airshow here, hopefully I will get my hands on my brother’s aircraft pictures at Xmas and be able to scan some goodies from that period.
With regard to a possible US invasion of Europe, try the Irish airfields thread, there are some interesting leads there, notably the probable lack of German occupying troops in the country which may have lead to a welcomed US force invading Ireland, especially with all the US/Irish connections.
There was a very good film made in the 60’s in black and white about the aftermath of a German invasion of Britain, I can’t remember the title of it and haven’t seen it for a while, I’m sure that some scribe on here will know which film I mean.
The film was not made by a major film company and was shot almost as a documentary which made it more believable.
I seem to recall that at the end of the film, the Nazis were struggling in Russia and the occupying troops were at a minimum, there was a very active resistance movement and the US had landed in western Ireland and were building up supplies and troops, along with British forces, Churchill was running things from Canada, which was always the plan I believe, despite the fact he pledged to fight to the last himself. Weren’t all our gold reserves sent there on the Queen Elizabeth battleship, I think during 1940 under great secrecy.

Fairford and Greenham Common both received B36 units from the early 1950’s onwards, in fact Greenham took the last deployment of a B-36 to Britain in September 1957.

I assume Ireland would have been occupied by the Germans too – although I am absolutely ceartin that there would have been a very active Irish Resistance movement.

If Britain had fallen, North Africa (and presumably the entire Mediterranean basin) would have been in Axis hands. There was an uprising in Iran or Iraq which may have succeeded, Spain was neutral-ish but with Axis leanings. It’s difficult to see where an invasion force could have been based.

I think in case Britain had fallen to the Germans, the U.S. would have done their buildup in Africa (or Spain) rather than England, and D-Day would have taken place somewhere in Greece or Italy (or Spain). Or the war would have concentrated on the east, meaning U.S. buildup in what is today Iran and Iraq.

Conventional bombing over 16000km (round trip) is not very economical or operational viable.

IIRC, the huge concrete hardstanding at Elvington was built for the B.36 but I’ve no idea where I read it.

Edit.
Complete gibberish. According to Action Stations it, and the runway, were for the B.66 but never used.

LOL – they’d have been based in the USA.

Wow, comprehensive answer.
I do remember as clear as day trainspotting at our local railway bridge at Wollaton, Nottingham one late afternoon/evening in the late 50’s and seeing one of those things fly over quite low heading north in the direction of Hucknall aerodrome, whether he landed there or not was never discovered. Where would they have been based in relation to Nottingham, Bruntingthorpe?

from: http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b36_1.html

“The origin of the B-36 can be traced back to the early days of 1941, at a time when it seemed that Britain might fall to a German invasion, depriving the USA of any European allies in case of war, and, in particular, leaving the Army Air Corps without any bases outside the Western Hemisphere. Consequently, the Air Corps felt that it would need a truly intercontinental bomber with unprecedented range, one that could bomb targets in Europe from bases inside the continental USA. In search of such an aircraft, on April 11, 1941, the USAAC, in an atmosphere of high secrecy, opened up a design competition for a bomber with a 450 mph top speed, a 275 mph cruising speed, a service ceiling of 45,000 feet, and a maximum range of 12,000 miles at 25,000 feet. It had to be able to carry a 10,000 pound bombload a distance of 5000 miles away and return, and had to be able to carry 72,000 pounds of bombs over a reduced range. It had to be able to take off and land on a 5000-foot runway. These requirements were far beyond the state of the art at the time.

Invitations for preliminary design studies were sent to the Consolidated Aircraft Corporation and to the Boeing Airplane Company. A month later, Northrop Aircraft, Inc was asked for further design studies on its “flying wing” bomber proposal. On April 19, the Douglas Aircraft Company was given a contract to determine if the Allison V-3420 W-type liquid-cooled engine could be adapted as a bomber powerplant. Much later, the Glenn L. Martin Company was also solicited, but declined the invitation due to a shortage of engineering personnel.

On May 3, 1941, a preliminary proposal was submitted by Consolidated. The company designation for the project was Model 35, although at this time it was still uncertain whether a 6-engine or a 4-engine format would be used. Twin fins and rudders were employed by the Model 35.

In order to accelerate the intercontinental bomber project, a conference of high-ranking USAAF officers met on August 19, 1941 and decided to scale down their requirements. The maximum range requirement was reduced to 10,000 miles and the effective combat radius requirement was cut to 4000 miles with a 10,000 pound bombload. The cruising speed should be somewhere between 240 and 300 mph, and the service ceiling should be 40,000 feet.

On October 3, 1941, a review of preliminary data from Boeing, Consolidated, and Douglas was held. At that time, the Materiel Division of the USAAF decided that the Consolidated study was the most promising. At this stage, the Consolidated proposal still covered several different designs, both 4- and 6-engine pusher and pusher-tractor combinations. On October 16, Major General Henry H. Arnold, Chief of the USAAF directed that the Consolidated proposal should be proceeded with. On November 15, 1941, a contract for two experimental aircraft was issued under the designation XB-36. The contract was designated W535-AC-2232. On November 22, the Engineering Division at Wright Field concluded that the 6-engine design rather than the 4-engine design should be adopted, but the twin fin-and-rudder format was retained. On December 10, Consolidated redesignated the Model 35 the Model 36 so that it would not be confused with the Northrop flying wing, which was then known as the B-35.

The two XB-36s were to be built in San Diego, with the first one to be delivered by May of 1944. At the head of the chain of command at Consolidated was I. M. Laddon, the executive vice president. Key members of the Model 36 team were Harry A. Sutton, head of the Engineering Department, Ted P. Hall, head of the preliminary design group, Ralph L. Bayless, head of the Aerodynamics Group, Ken Ward, in charge of finalizing the external shape, and Robert H. Widmer, in charge of wind tunnel testing. By this time, the wing span had grown to 230 feet with an area of 4772 square feet. The wing had a slight sweepback, and sat high on a circular-section fuselage. The aircraft was to be powered by a set of six 28-cylinder Pratt & Whitney “X” air-cooled radials. This engine was based on a pair 14-cylinder R-1830 Twin Wasp engine connected together, and in 1941 existed only on paper. These six engines were each to drive a 19-foot three-bladed Curtiss propeller in pusher configuration. The engines were to be accessible for maintenance in flight via passageways in the 7.5-foot thick wing root. Six fuel tanks with a capacity of 21,116 US gallons were incorporated into the wing. The 163-foot fuselage had four separate bomb bays with a maximum capacity of 42,000 pounds. Like in the B-29, only the forward crew compartment and the gunner’s weapons sighting station compartment behind the bomb bay were to be pressurized. A 25-inch diameter, 80-foot long pressurized tube ran alongside the bomb bays to connect the forward crew compartment to the rear gunners’ compartment. Crewmen could use a wheeled trolley to slide back and forth. The crew consisted of 15 (pilot, copilot, radar/bombardier, navigator, flight engineer, two radiomen, three forward gunners, and five rear gunners). Four rest bunks were provided for relief. An extremely heavy defensive armament was to be provided, consisting of five 37-mm cannon and ten 0.50-inch machine guns. These guns were to be distributed among four retractable turrets and a radar-directed tail turret. The guns were to be remotely directed by gunners situated at sighting stations distributed throughout the fuselage.

The B-36 mockup was inspected on July 20, 1942. The Mockup Committee felt that the aircraft carried too many guns and crew members to meet the 10,000 mile range requirement, and recommended that drastic reductions be made in the defensive firepower. However, some people on the committee felt that such changes would render the B-36 tactically useless, making it little more than a “flying laboratory” like the Douglas XB-19. If such reductions were actually necessary, the USAAF threatened to recommend the cancellation of the entire B-36 project and the diversion of funds to more productive bomber programs. The Mockup Committee compromised and eventually agreed to delete only the “less necessary” items of equipment from the aircraft. This reduced weight and saved the B-36 project from cancellation at that time. “

Unlike the RAF, the USSR never had the assets to carry out a prolonged bombing campaign against Germany, which I consider had a great delaying effect on reducing the Luftwaffe’s capacity to develop advanced aircraft or missiles, and the nations capacity to develop a nuclear weapon, which was always a possibility.
Without any military pressures elsewhere and Hitler allowing the real military tacticians to run the show, I think that the USSR would have been defeated quite easily, producing an infinite amount of slave labour and then the s*** would really have hit the fan for the remains of the free world, including Japan.
When exactly was the B-36 concieved, was it after the US had entered the war or earlier.

1941 Spec, preceding the technology of an atomic bomb, but after the 2 Ocean Navy had been funded. Isolationism was vulnerable to Japan, moving through China into SE Asia and taking US’ Philippines colony, or to Germany-in-Argentina moving up and taking US’ Caribbean colony Puerto Rico, or to USSR moving over from Vladivostok to take Alaska Territory. Two Fleets and a long-range bombardment capability substituted for land bases – Singapore, Oz, Gibraltar, Blighty – if the King’s Empire had folded. Like any Deterrent, they were funded and crewed in hope they would never be used, confident they would do well if necessary. If Trade was about to be throttled, US CinC would have used these long-legged assets to try to keep his enemies far from home.

Interesting to speculate.

If the UK had fallen would Germany have succeeded against Russia?

Probably not, so the US would have been faced with a USSR that stretched to the coast of Ireland. This would have been a threat that the US could not live happily with I guess. So they would have needed the B36 for deterrence.

If, by some chance the Germans had won, how long would it have been before they came to the aid of their Japanese chums with an Atomic Bomb attack on the USA?

So many imponderables

Moggy