I recently received an email with the incredible story and pictures titled above. I added it to the RAF Warmwell website as a story that deserves showing.
I suspect some of you may well be familiar with it?
Last paragraph:
[INDENT]When the ambulance pulled alongside, it was waved off because not a single member of the crew had been injured. No one could believe that the aircraft could still fly in such a condition. The Fortress sat placidly until the crew all exited through the door in the fuselage and the tail gunner had climbed down a ladder, at which time the entire rear section of the aircraft collapsed onto the ground. The rugged old bird had done its job.[/INDENT]
By: Stepwilk - 3rd April 2013 at 15:35
and that parachutes being used as support for the tail section were five in number…
I’m particularly amused by the thought that five crewmen would give up their parachutes to -maybe- help hold the tail on. Hey, worth a try, right? Wrong.
So far, Steve’s published account of the incident is the only one I’ve seen that’s obviously correct.
By: Moggy C - 3rd April 2013 at 12:55
Quite so.
The webbie is working on a forum upgrade, but even after this I think we’ll find Google gives better results.
Moggy
By: Bager1968 - 3rd April 2013 at 00:07
Example please.
Moggy
I mentioned one in my post #7 above.
Specifically, entering B-17 “All American” (414th Squadron, 97BG) into the search engine returns the following:
The following errors occurred with your search:
1. Sorry – no matches. Please try some different terms.
This despite that being the exact title of this thread: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1994198#post1994198
This occurs whether “search titles only” or “search entire posts” is selected.
Just entering B-17 “All American” likewise fails to locate that or any other thread on this aircraft.
{edit: Ah… I see, you put up that sticky on 24 October 2012… AFTER my failure on 19 October 2012… I thought you were referring to the earlier instructions on using the forum search function, such as those in the FAQ.
In effect, you repeated my advice of 19 October 2012 to use Google search instead of the forum search function.}
By: Steve Birdsall - 2nd April 2013 at 22:43
Meanwhile, on eBay . . .
At the risk of getting this thread back on track, I see that there’s a fellow from Shelton, WA selling prints of the All American photo for US$5.99.
His description of the item states that the “historic photograph” was “from a P-51 pilot”, that the crew used “parachute lines to hold the aircraft together” and “they even used their 50 cal machine guns to help steer the plane”.
When I told him that his “facts” were wrong and tried to direct him to more accurate versions of the story he responded: “General consensus is that it was a P-51 that intercepted the ‘All American’ just as it reach [sic] the English channel that took the historic photograph and that parachutes being used as support for the tail section were five in number”.
He told me that his “sources included the 97th Bomb Group, Boeing and numerous accounts on the internet”.
By: Moggy C - 2nd April 2013 at 10:54
As it applies to all the fora, it is at the top of General Discussion
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=120168
Moggy
By: TomDocherty72 - 2nd April 2013 at 10:19
Sticky
Since so few bother to read the sticky outlining the simple snd effective way to search the forum, what would be the chance of them reading one about this aircraft?
Moggy
There is a sticky about that? Wow! I never knew that! Where are the stickies kept?
By: Moggy C - 2nd April 2013 at 09:56
Example please.
Moggy
By: Bager1968 - 2nd April 2013 at 03:20
The problem is that I HAVE read that sticky, and applied its advice… and the search function still regularly fails to turn up threads even if I type in the exact and correct thread title!
By: Moggy C - 1st April 2013 at 08:39
And as I said in October 2012…
Do we need a sticky with the list of threads about this aircraft?
Since so few bother to read the sticky outlining the simple snd effective way to search the forum, what would be the chance of them reading one about this aircraft?
Moggy
By: Steve Birdsall - 1st April 2013 at 07:19
I guess you mean the YB-40 that went to Italy and shot down the P-38 . . . 🙂
Not to mention what Caidin did to the Zeamer story!
By: Dan Johnson - 1st April 2013 at 03:54
Some of the baloney written about All American can be traced back to that reprehensible colorizer of WWII aviation history, Martin Caidin, who was the living definition of that old saw, “Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.”
Possibly the understatement of the century 🙂
Shall we talk YB-40s? 🙂
By: Stepwilk - 31st March 2013 at 20:29
Some of the baloney written about All American can be traced back to that reprehensible colorizer of WWII aviation history, Martin Caidin, who was the living definition of that old saw, “Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.”
By: Steve Birdsall - 31st March 2013 at 19:56
Just for the record, here’s an accurate account of what happened to 41-24406 on 1 February 1943, based on interviews with veterans and official records:
[All American’s navigator] Lt Harry Nuessle had been jotting down cryptic notes in his log: “I.F.F. set – 13:08 . . .13:11½ 1st flak bursts extremely accurate one four-gun flak battery definitely located about 2 mi S. of City . . .Camera on – 13:12 . . . Bombs Away – 13:13 . . . Camera off – 13:13:10 (turned to avoid flak) . . .13:18 ship 124477 fired at 190 – saw small piece fly from E/A, began to smoke as it pulled away . . . About 13:25 ME109 made head on attack – passed within inches of ship doing ??? damage . . . ”
Harry Nuessle expanded on this two days later, in a letter to his brother: “Long after we had left the target, and after having sustained two different attacks by ships coming out of the sun, we saw two unidentified planes climbing alongside of us about two miles to the right. They continued well in front of us and suddenly cut in to attack – one directly at the nose of the lead ship, one at us. Burbridge the bombardier covered the one coming at us with the nose gun; I took the other with the gun 45 degrees out the side of the nose. It was the first time we had ever experienced this sort of attack – an infrequent tactic due to the extremely high rate of closure between ships coming head-on. Between my own fire and fire from the lead ship, the Jerry going for the latter was last seen smoking off in the distance. Meanwhile I could see this other Joe coming at us, his wings looking as though they were afire from his flaming guns. About 300 yards out he began to roll over in order to be able to pull down and away after his attack – but somewhere about half way around, either Burbridge’s fire or fire from the lead ship must have gotten the pilot or disabled the plane because he never completed his intended roll and rapid pass under our ship – for one horrible instant he was right there inches in front and above us – I ducked instinctively, though God knows had he hit us head on no amount of ducking would have saved any of us. But he passed over us with a distinctly audible swoosh followed by a tremendous jar and a whoomp! Our plane began to dive, and I reached for my ‘chute . . . ”
Bombardier Lt Ralph Burbridge, up front with Nuessle, remembers, “Sitting in the nose at the .30 caliber gun, I could see him open up with his wing guns and cannon . . .I was firing at it all the way . . . it was a Messerschmitt 109, single engine. I figure one of us must have killed the pilot because the plane crashed right into us – we were a good target that close. He just disintegrated, the others told me later. When we hit, our plane almost stood up on its tail. Then we went down at a very sharp angle. I thought to myself, boy, this is it.”
In the cockpit, Lt Kendrick Bragg and co-pilot Lt Godfrey Engel had been watching enemy fighters far to the north, streaking along in the same direction. They were out of range and harmless for the moment, but Bragg told his gunners to keep an eye on them . . . “They had suddenly turned and were racing toward us”, he recalled. “The two small specks increased rapidly in size as they came nearer . . . on they came, one plane about thirty seconds behind the other, ready for a one-two punch . . . we were in a tight formation now with [Major Robert] Coulter. He began a slight dive to avoid the oncoming fighters and I followed. They patterned us, managing to stay about level with us. In a split second they were in shooting range and our forward gunners opened fire. Brilliant tracer bullets flew in both directions, as though a score of boys were fighting it out with Roman candles. The first attacker half-rolled onto our flight to make a quick getaway. As he did I saw Coulter’s bomber burst into smoke and start earthward in an uncontrollable spiral.
“The second enemy fighter was now our primary concern. As he half-rolled out in front of us and blazed away with all his guns our gunners found the mark . . . he was at about 300 yards when his guns stopped, but he kept coming straight in . . . all our forward guns opened up to turn him but evidently the pilot had been killed . . .
“I rammed the controls forward in a violent attempt to avoid collision. The rate of closure of the two planes was close to 600 miles an hour and my action seemed sluggish. I flinched as the fighter passed inches over my head and then I felt a slight thud like a coughing engine. I checked the engines and controls. The trim tabs were not working. I tried to level the All American but she insisted on climbing. It was only the pressure from knees and hands that I was able to hold her in anything like a straight line. Engel tried his controls. He got the same reaction, but we found that by throttling back the engines we could keep her on a fairly even keel. I tried to call the pilot of the lead plane which had gone down only a moment before, but there was no answer . . .”
The top turret gunner, T/Sgt Joe James, had broken in on the intercom with a masterpiece of understatement: “Sir, we’ve received some damage in the tail section”. Someone else said something about a hole you could drive a jeep through, and the crew remember somebody repeating “You could drive a jeep through that hole” all of the way home. Turning the controls over to Engel, Bragg unbuckled his harness and went back to the rear of the aircraft . . .
Lt Jack Davenport was pilot of Flying Flit Gun, a B-17 which had been christened by LIFE photographer Margaret Bourke-White. He had been scheduled to fly on Coulter’s left wing, but when they started the motors there had been an oil pressure problem with the right inboard engine. Davenport shut the engines down and his crew chief, John Vlad, quickly found and fixed the fault. As Davenport recalled it, “We scrambled off and caught up in about twenty minutes, but a standby spare from the 414th [Bragg in 41-24406] was in our spot, so we filled in the diamond as the seventh ship of the 340th. We had a nice view.
“About five minutes after ‘bombs away’ it was fighters at one o’clock. Just two Me109s I believe, and they attacked in tandem from about 12:30 . . . I can remember seeing a great deal of debris going by my window and pulling up slightly. Strangely, after this encounter, I don’t remember seeing a single airplane but Bragg’s, and we got on his left wing and came home . . . Bragg was holding his speed at about 140; when he tried to increase it the sharp ragged point of the dorsal fin vibrated violently side to side and we prudently loosened our position and flew a little higher.”
What had happened? German records reveal that the Freya radar at Tunis picked up the American formation, estimated to be 20 B-17s escorted by 20 Lightnings, at 12.25 hrs, and between 13.10 hrs and 13.20 hrs 33 German fighters rose to meet them. They comprised 19 Messerschmitt 109s from Jagdgeschwader 53, based at El Aouina, and 14 Focke-Wulf 190s. Although not proven, it seems likely that the pilot of the aircraft which hit All American was Feldwebel Erich Paczia from 6/JG 53, the only German pilot lost that day, who was merely listed as “missing in the Pont-du-Fahs area”. If it was Erich Paczia that flew into All American, he was probably dead, or badly wounded, as he was a skilled and experienced pilot with 16 victories to his credit.
In All American, Kendrick Bragg remembered that, “As I opened the door of the radio compartment and looked back into the fuselage I was stunned. A torn mass of metal greeted my eyes. Wires were dangling and sheets of metal were flapping as the air rushed through the torn wreckage. Three-fourths of the plane had been cut completely through by the enemy fighter and a large piece of the wing of the Me109 was still lodged in the tail of our plane . . . It left our tail section hanging on by a few slender spars and a narrow strip of metallic skin.”
Crawling along that narrow strip was Sgt Sam Sarpolus, the tail gunner, bringing with him four gun brushes, his parachute, and Bragg’s jacket. He’d left four gas masks, remembering later that “I looked at them a minute and thought the hell with them”.
Bragg continued, “I climbed into the upper turret to see the damage from the outside. The tail section was swinging as much as a foot and a half out of line with the front of the plane. The horizontal stabilizer on the left was gone completely and the rear third of the plane seemed to be trying to hang on for dear life. We were now out of danger of enemy action so I called the crew to assemble in the radio compartment. I explained our situation to them as I saw it. Our plane was under limited control, beneath us was the African jungle, steep mountains and enemy territory. If we stayed with our plane our chances of survival depended upon how long the tail and fuselage could hold together. If she broke apart, the two tumbling parts might make it impossible for us to free ourselves from the falling plane. I was going to attempt to ride her down, but they could decide, each man for himself, what was best for him to do. They elected to stay . . . ready to abandon ship upon signal from the pilot’s cabin. Then I prayed I’d never have to ring the signal bell.”
All American had lost about half of the horizontal stabilizer surface in the collision, and Bragg had no way of knowing at what air speed his partial tail might stall on approach and landing. He made several “simulated landings” at altitude, but noted no difference.
“As we neared the field we fired three emergency flares, then we circled at 2000 feet while the other planes in our formation made their landings and cleared the runways. We could see the alert crews, ambulances and crash trucks making ready for us. Without radio contact with the field we had to wait for the signal that all was clear and ready for us. When we got the signal, I lowered the landing gear and flaps to test the reaction of All American. They seemed to go reasonably well, considering.
“We now had two alternatives. We could attempt a landing or we could bale out over the field and let the plane fly alone until she crashed – always a dangerous thing to do. I had made up my mind to set her down. She had brought us safely through so far; I knew she would complete her mission. The crew decided to ride her down too. A green flare from the field signalled that all was clear for our attempt at a landing.
“I made a long careful approach to the strip with partial power until the front wheels touched the levelled earth and I could feel the grating as she dragged without a tail wheel along the desert sands. She came to a stop and I ordered the co-pilot to cut the engines. We were home.”
The ambulance had raced after the landing B-17 but Bragg laconically said, “No business, Doc”.
There was an unreal quality to those first minutes of realisation that they had got through this in one piece. Sgt Elton Conda was not a regular member of Bragg’s crew, but had flown as ball turret gunner that day. When Bragg had asked him if he would fill in, Conda had flippantly asked, “Can you fly?” The people at the 97th’s field were duly impressed. Legend has it that when three sight-seers crawled inside the fuselage it groaned and finally broke in two.
It was the photo taken by Lt Charles Cutforth, navigator on Flying Flit Gun, which told the story to the world. With a keen sense of history, Harry Nuessle mailed his small print of the picture home with a plea to the censor: “Should there be some law, rule, or regulation against sending the picture below to my wife, please seal the flap above and return – it is an unduplicatable shot and one I should hate to lose”.
[RIGHT]- Edited extract from Claims To Fame: The B-17 Flying Fortress by Steve Birdsall and Roger A. Freeman[/RIGHT]
By: Steve Birdsall - 24th February 2013 at 00:14
“The turn back toward England had to be very slow to keep the tail from twisting off”
“Allied P-51 fighters intercepted the All American as it crossed over the Channel and took one of the pictures shown”
Gotta love the photos of the Fort sitting on an aerodrome, somewhere in the wind-blown sandy desert that is East Anglia!
*cough*
An heroic story, geographical curiosities notwithstanding.
I think my favourite bit is about the waist gunners “with their heads sticking out through the hole in the top of the fuselage to aim and fire their machine guns”.
The moron or morons who doctored this story should be taken out and shot.
And yes, a sticky on this would be a really good idea, because the hoax email is everywhere.
By: Bager1968 - 23rd February 2013 at 15:35
There are also these threads about the same aircraft…
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?p=1994198#post1994198 5 February 2013
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=120079 19 October 2012
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=118734 14 August 2012
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=109835 17 June 2011
And from post #4 on here: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=96614 27 December 2009
And as I said in October 2012…
I’m not getting on you for not finding the earlier threads… the broke-d!ck search (mis)function on this board couldn’t find either thread… despite the search term
Quote:
B-17 “All American”
being in the title of the first link I posted.I had to get the links from Google!
Do we need a sticky with the list of threads about this aircraft?
By: mikedf21 - 13th February 2013 at 06:49
It IS on hell of a story!
Mind you there are many others that could be and probably are logged down – probably on this site as well – I have not yet been round here far enough to check yet! 🙂
By: Der - 10th February 2013 at 21:29
Respect.
By: David_Kavangh - 10th February 2013 at 20:40
Quick Google shows it was Biskra in Algeria (rather than East Anglia!). target was Bizerta, Tunisia.
By: JollyGreenSlugg - 10th February 2013 at 19:45
“The turn back toward England had to be very slow to keep the tail from twisting off”
“Allied P-51 fighters intercepted the All American as it crossed over the Channel and took one of the pictures shown”
Gotta love the photos of the Fort sitting on an aerodrome, somewhere in the wind-blown sandy desert that is East Anglia!
*cough*
An heroic story, geographical curiosities notwithstanding.
By: Bmused55 - 10th February 2013 at 17:23
Seen the in flight photo. Never knew they got it back and with zero casualties. Great story.
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February 10, 2013 at 3:28 pm