WWII Truth and?

The ‘Roosevelt’ sentence stands alone.

I didn’t read it that way myself, but I do see where it could stand alone.

Truman and Roosevelt hardly spoke directly to each other between their victory in the 1944 election and the latter’s death in April 1945, apparently.

If Mr Beevor’s claims have been accepted as unquestionably the historical facts, then I take your point. Have they?

I am sorry you seem unable to recall where you have read that phrase before….

….because it applies to your third point where you again quote piecemeal, and in doing so distort what I wrote.

Re 35

“…historians opinion…”?

I’m sure that Mr. Beevor would be gratified by your apparent dismissal of his and his researchers laborious hours and days scrutinising archival letters, documents, Cabinet Minutes and recording person to person interviews and suchlike.

“…..if you read the words….”

Now where have I heard that before ?

Re 30

“….Factual material…” If it is ‘factual’, it doesn’t have to be ‘not verifiable’.

If you’re going to criticise, don’t be contradictory.

All of this according to Anthony Beevor. But, take no notice. According to 30it’s all a bit of a fairy tale.

Not what I said at all. But you’ll grant, presumably, that it is still a historian’s opinion. Which is all I was saying in the post – if you read the words as opposed to putting your interpretation on the words.;):)

Re 30

Obvious really! But, still interesting in its implications for scholarship.

Very much so. That’s why the thread is so interesting.

Re 32

Well, I’m no expert but, I would have thought that the implication was that Truman hadn’t had time to demonstrate anything at all to the Russians.

The ‘Roosevelt’ sentence stands alone.

After Truman had had time to assess the Russians and they him, the Russians concluded that Truman was no ‘pushover’ unlike Roosevelt.

All of this according to Anthony Beevor. But, take no notice. According to 30 it’s all a bit of a fairy tale.

Roosevelt’s perceived weakness towards the Russians had alarmed Churchill. Within one week of the German surrender, eg. about the 15th May, 1945, Churchill summoned a meeting of his military Chiefs of Staff….

Forgive me for nit-picking, but surely Truman was US President on May 15 1945, Roosevelt having passed away in the previous month?

Re 30

Obvious really! But, still interesting in its implications for scholarship.

A fascinating thread with lots of quotable and some factual material, but much not verifiable. So I suppose that with the mixture of distance from events, lack of first hand information, and the obfuscation of the times, we will never really know what happened. We will know what was reported and how any number of eminent military historians interpreted what was reported, but the true history, as so often, will never be known.

Roosevelt’s perceived weakness towards the Russians had alarmed Churchill. Within one week of the German surrender, eg. about the 15th May, 1945, Churchill summoned a meeting of his military Chiefs of Staff.

He astonished them by asking whether it would be possible to force the Red Army back across Europe to ‘secure a square deal for Poland’. The proposed offensive should be timed for the 1st July before the military strength of the Allies was diminished by demobilization or transfers to the Far East.

Planning for what was called Operation Unthinkable was conducted with great secrecy. But, not too secret for one of Stalins agents in Whitehall who passed back details to Moscow.

The really eye watering piece of news was an instruction to Field Marshal Montgomery to gather up surrendered German weaponry in case Wehrmacht units were reconstituted to take part in this enterprise.

On the 31st May, Chiefs of Staff, Brooke, Portal, and Cunningham once again discussed the ‘unthinkable’ war against Russia. Field Marshal Brooke was clear that their studies showed that the Allies could drive the Russians back to about the same eastward limit reached by the Germans in their Russian invasion in 1941. But what then…?

Both British and American soldiers were anxious to get home. This, together with their sympathy for their Russian allies precluded any success of Operation Unthinkable.

So, according to my source – quote follows -the original comment on this subject holds more than a grain of truth !

p.762. C49. “The Second World War”, Anthony Beevor, Orion Publishing.

The German Navy certainly didn’t have much of a submarine service after WW2 – most of the surrendered U-boats were taken out and sunk in the Malin area during Operation Deadlight!

The so-called “Howden Moor Incident”…

BSG-75, Andy in Beds,

If a quick Google caused a chuckle, these links will have you in hysterics.

Maxwell Burns’ (chief nutjob in all this) Check the Evidence page.

Sheffield UFO Incident – We may have proof

A lengthy thread on The Sheffield Forum, where some chap (skiptor) has found jet engine turbine blades in Grenoside woods. The aforementioned Maxwell Burns posts on there, under the name maxwell1.
There are photos of the turbine blades buried in the depths of the thread – Those blades have clearly never been in an aircraft, much less a crash.

And finally, a link by “serious” UFOlogists, where they hoax Burns.
This made ME chuckle.

Max Burns Hoax

Enjoy…

Sorry for the slight drift off topic, Mods… :diablo:

I’d never heard of that, so a quick google caused me 15 minutes amusement over my morning Coffee.

Same here !:eek::D

Then I looked at Rendlesham Forest ….. that “holds more water” as an incident IMHO, but whenever I read it, my pet theory about a USAF aircraft dropping an exernal store and the whole thing being a clear up operation comes to mind. Would they rather have folk ranting about UFO’s or asking how much plutonium is left scattered around…. ?

Agent Mulder…… where are you when we need you ???

Re 13

Resmorah

Blimey ! Genuinely, thoughtful, commonsensical and businesslike comment. Apart from one or two others, I didn’t know that such was available !

Neither the British nor German government admit to the fact that the Luftwaffe was NOT completely disbanded but kept in readiness for re-establishment…

I think we need to be very careful here with our terminology so that a simple statement of fact doesn’t give completely the wrong impression of the actual situation.

The phrase ‘the Luftwaffe was NOT completely disbanded but kept in readiness’ is open to wide interpretation, very wide interpretation. I know for a fact that many former Luftwaffe personnel, including officers and aircrew, became part of the post-war Luftwaffe but this certainly does not mean that there were squadrons of German designed and built aircraft sitting ‘in readiness’ on German controlled airfields!

Apologies for being so sceptical of your motives in my earlier post but there are those who are only too willing to ‘re-write’ history with a few posts on an internet forum…

…this is especially true for those who state that governments will not ‘admit’ to something. 😉

Don’t mention the Pope…..you’ll get ‘rubbed-out’! 😉

I have it on dodgy authority that it is all the BBC’s fault, in cahoots with the illuminati and the lizards.

So where does the Pope fit into this ? :confused:

I blame the Illuminati.

.

Illuminati?, I didn’t know you were a fan of Lady Lara Croft, (Tomb Raider)extrordinair 😉

Jim.
Lincoln .7

The “proven crash site of the RAF Tornado” which was (allegedly) shot down by a UFO during the so-called Howden Moor Incident.

No more. Please. Enough.

(Can a Moderator please flag this thread as “conspiracy theorist B.S.”? Thanks.)

I’d never heard of that, so a quick google caused me 15 minutes amusement over my morning Coffee.

Oh for Christ’s sake. Not another conspiracy theory.

Those who know me will be aware of my opinions on conspiracy theories/ theorists, and at least one Forum member is familiar with my recent experiences with a few. These range from the “missing” Mitchell crewman who wandered off dazed from the crash, to the unidentified US Thunderbolt that must have been carrying some top-secret equipment, to the best one – The “proven crash site of the RAF Tornado” which was (allegedly) shot down by a UFO during the so-called Howden Moor Incident.

No more. Please. Enough.

(Can a Moderator please flag this thread as “conspiracy theorist B.S.”? Thanks.)