XH558 Urgent need for cash

Obviously we all hope that the Vulcan will fly, but if not the airshows will always have this baby to fall back on. Not to sure how to cut a link in but if you are in Ebay see item 110118675790 . Providing it isn’t seen landing we might just about get away with it!

And somebody on the ground with a REALLY good sound system and SUBWOOFER! 😀

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110118675790&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D110118675790%2B%26fvi%3D1

Obviously we all hope that the Vulcan will fly, but if not the airshows will always have this baby to fall back on. Not to sure how to cut a link in but if you are in Ebay see item 110118675790 . Providing it isn’t seen landing we might just about get away with it!

It seems that in spite of the overall enthusiasm for the project to return 558 to the air a lot of people, myself included have similar reservations about the overall future plans of TVCO to operate the aircraft, and while I have no doubts that it will fly once more the unanswered question of the business plan which the group stoical refuses to make public has left this vacuum to be filled by the usual rumour mongers.

M.H. is quite correct in a lot of what he has written on the subject but until such a plan is made public all we can go on is what has been offered on the website.

It is to be hoped that the upcoming AGM will reveal a little more on the future for 558 and possibly quell the speculation currently making the rounds.

Actually I find Vulcan558’s comments (Post #91) about other restorers highly offensive and feel he should appologise forwith and without reservation to all of us who are active as volanteers.

So three cheers for all the volanteers like:

The SVAS, The Air Atlantique Ground Support Team, all museum voulanteers at places like Newark, MAM and DHHC (who IMHO have collectively done far more, for the preservation movement, in getting so many of their aircraft under cover than the Vulcan crowd ever have or will), those who help out private owners, restorers like TexanTomcat, those who lovingly restore and share cockpits with those of us less fortunate.

All the owners like Melvyn, Hairyplane, Mike Collett.

Etc Etc

Then there are those, who just donate money and wives and girlfriends who indulge us with support in our humble effort – the list is endless.

But the final insult is when Vulca558 says ‘….get the Vulcan in the air. After that they can walk away happy that they did what they set out to do.’ This is totally unacceptable in that as I understand it the lottery grant was conditional upon the Vulcan being opperated for educational purposes for a number of years. If this is not fullfilled, then they either;

1. Mislead the National Lottery Heritage Fund and private donnors about their intentions for the Vulcan post restoration in order to gain funding.

Or

2. Are not willing to honour their obligations under the agreement with the National Lottery Heritage fund.

On the other hand it could be a tacit admission that the likes of Melvyn are correct and that they now realise that there is no way they will ever be able to fund XH558’s onging operation.

At this point I will appologise if I have misunderstood the terms attached to the lottery money.

Steve. Still hoping that I just might see her fly …..at least once!

Will she? / Won’t she?

Wasn’t going to post on this thread when it first popped up last week, as I feared it would be downhill all the way. Have just caught up with the posts that were added over the w/end.

Yes I want to see her in the air, yes I have thrown a few £ in the pot in the past, and yes I’ll throw a few more in, albeit with a lingering doubt that she won’t see daylight under her wheels again.

Melvyns post (no. 104 I think) sums it up, most of us (I presume?) would love to see a Vulcan in the air again, but realistically the chances are (still, IMHO) small. Not because there is any lack of expertise or commitment devoted to getting her up and running, but more because getting her into the air has to be a mere milestone in the whole project, and not the final goal, and in hindsight that’s perhaps where things were not properly thought through at the start

Getting her back into the air for a test flight or two, and for a quick “straight ‘n level” trip up the Mall* is one thing, funding an ongoing, expensive (likely very short, as per the LoHF application with only two sets of engines) second flying career is the major hurdle – and the one that has either been resolved, but not yet been properly explained to the interested masses despite frequent requests to hear the details, hence the questions on this thread, or one that remains as a HUGE hurdle that has never actually been tackled – either out of ignorance, or maybe out of a late realisation that there is simply no way of making the numbers work.

*Even as an “armchair” observer, I think the Mall Falklands Flypast is unlikely to see her, simply because time is too tight, and the test flights will almost certainly throw up faults and niggles that need to be rectified before CAA will “sign her off” even for simple straight and level flypasts.

I do sincerely hope she does fly, and that I get chance to see her in her element if she does, but as stated a few posts back, I fear we will see a pale shadow of the displays we saw when she and her sisters were still in service, I can’t see the CAA authorising any of those very steep wingovers, or those amazing full power climbouts after touch ‘n gos etc. I fear a number of the younger generation will wonder what all our fuss was about when they get just a few straight and level passes at a very safe height and very safe distance from them, yet hear us oldies reminisce about how things used to be. Maybe it would have been better leave well alone, rather than to risk a major disappointment as a result of today’s red tape place serious restrictions on her.

Melvyn, you write from first hand experience as someone who no doubt sank far more cash and time than you ever expected into your own restoration project, and I trust everyone remembers this when they read it.

Personally I’m still sitting on the fence on this one, I’d love to see her in the air – but Bruce’s comments about what else might have been achieved with similar sums of cash does make me wonder if I’d rather have seen a Mossie or two, or maybe a Beaufighter in the air, not least because they might have had longer shelf-lives post restroration, given that running costs might have been somewhat lower and soemwhat more “fundable” in the medium term.

Off to chip a few more quid into the Vulcan’s pot, more in hope than in expectation of seeing her do her stuff 🙁 .

Paul F

.
do not see the mighty sea vixen haveing much support from the lot that wanted it painted grey and looking right. how good they are. lets let it rot in an hanger .

A sweeping generalistaion of Vixen supporters there… The Red Bull contract inluded a repaint to RN scheme at the end of the sponsorship. I am one of “the lot” who detested the RB scheme and would be willing to support it to fly again. However the current owners have buried their heads in the sand and have offered no information or points of contact to offer donations or support – certainly not publicly any way. The Vixen had flown consistently for many years, 5 or 6 were flown as a display act. The Vulcan hasnt left the ground for 14 years, if I had to support a jet warbird, I know where my notes would go if I knew were to send it…

:confused: Maybe i am reading this incorrectly ,thats the trouble with the internet the same thing can be read by different people and come come to differing conclusions.
I never meant any criticism of anyone,so i hope that is made plain.
The point i was trying to make was someone was threatening never to contribute again to help the Vulcan because of a posting by someone else.All i was asking was NOT to turn this personal and withdraw the gifts of time ,money or aid because of someone elses post upsetting them.
I hope this clarifies my post.There was never any other intention than to try to pour oil on troubled waters:)
If i have have upset anyone then sorry but i think theres a misunderstanding.

ZR, please recognise the difference between his generalised attack on every other restorer in the world and your personal one.

I had no option.

Moggy

😮 Don’t punish all the others and the hard work by withholding money and help because of 1 poster saying things you don’t agree with.
This is supposed to be an aviation supporting forum rather than a slagging off each other.
Come on everyone:confused:

& MY post gets edited for personal attacks where the post that basically said all other restorers are a bunch of thickos goes untouched?
******** to it.
Lets see what Vulcan558 has to say for himself when he sobers up….

I understand by talking to some one in the know, she should be gracing the skies over England by the end of this month.
If this is correct well done to all and good luck for the comming events for 2007 which have been ear marked if all goes well.

There’s that understanding of the real world again:rolleyes:

Gracing our skies again?

I understand by talking to some one in the know, she should be gracing the skies over England by the end of this month.
If this is correct well done to all and good luck for the comming events for 2007 which have been ear marked if all goes well.

Mark – I was feeling that Churchill spirit for a few minutes – visions of the white cliffs – a warm pint of beer and the inspirational sight of the Vulcan soaring over head until you dropped the bombshell!
You went to the Land of the Free years ago and have to put up with B-52’s and the Reno races instead! Talk about bursting the bubble!

Ouch, I didn’t expect such a response when I started this thread. Whatever your point of view atleast you have the right to have your say. A right the Vulcan helped to preserve.
As has been mentioned earlier, they now have a final figure to work to. All I was trying to say was, if you’re interested, some more money would be appreciated. Yep, there are no guarantees she will fly on without more donations, she won’t come cheap. Personal choice if you wish to donate.
One thing that hasn’t been mentioned that I’ve seen is the education part of the restoration.
My understanding is that HLF cash was only forthcoming as 558 was to be used to remind and educate people about the cold war. Whilst a lot of us may remember it, alot of the younger generation, even more over the next 10 years, do not/will not know much about it. It wasn’t simply a case of ‘wouldn’t it be nice to see a Vulcan fly again’. I seem to recall she was turned down the first time she applied for a grant.
Personally, I appreciate everyone’s point of view and am glad we can discuss it. I’m thankful to everyone at tvoc and am happy to part with more of my money to see 558 fly. If you don’t want to part with your money now, no problem, but a £1 in the tin if you enjoy a display in the future would be appreciated.

I have not read this thread in great detail but am dismayed by the negitivity of it. I lived in Lincoln for 34 years and remember when I was young and lived 5 miles from Waddington (Between Waddinton and Scampton) we could hear the Vulcans start up, on many occassions my dad would bundle us all in the car and by the time we arrived we would see 4 or 5 Vulcans all taking off line astern. The ground would be shaking, the sky would be full of ‘rust’ as I used to call it from the exhausts. It was a fantastic sight I will never forget. I loved the Vulcan and the strange screeching noises it would make when it was thrown around the air as if in protest.

I just think that it is money well spent as in the times we live and the amount of money that is wasted by the government and the lottery, even if it flys for 1 or 2 years it will leave a lasting impression on the younger generations like it did with me. Ever since those days that we were bundled in the car to see this great sight I have forever been interested in aircraft. I do not work in the field and so have an interest from the outside but as an engineer fully understand the technical issues that need to be overcome to fly these old magnificent achievements of Great Britain in its engineering prime. Will I get excited about a Tornado or Eurobox, no, the British aircraft are the best and remind us of our once greatness.

I commend anyone who works in the field and spends, donates or donates time to achieve this. Whilst I know Britain is no longer great as we have been pilaged by too many corrupt govenments with personnal greed in there minds. They can take our money but not our memmories or our pride.

The Vulcan team have fort many battles, but I for one hope they do succeed if only to prove good old British buldog spirit still survives.. My only regret is that I will not get to see it fly as I have left the country and now live in Reno…… cannot wait for the air races again….

Where else do you get to see 5 furies flying together…. fantastic…

Mark

OK i came back, been to the pub and what do you know:eek: Melve as always you have sumed it all up and said it far better than i could!!!
What alot of you are missing, and not reading what has been said, is that this is not neagative!!!! most here would love to see a Vulcan fly, we are not being negative, we are being realistic about what will happen not what we would like to happen but what will in the real world! Back in box now:D

I have not read this thread in great detail but am dismayed by the negitivity of it. I lived in Lincoln for 34 years and remember when I was young and lived 5 miles from Waddington (Between Waddinton and Scampton) we could hear the Vulcans start up, on many occassions my dad would bundle us all in the car and by the time we arrived we would see 4 or 5 Vulcans all taking off line astern. The ground would be shaking, the sky would be full of ‘rust’ as I used to call it from the exhausts. It was a fantastic sight I will never forget. I loved the Vulcan and the strange screeching noises it would make when it was thrown around the air as if in protest.

I just think that it is money well spent as in the times we live and the amount of money that is wasted by the government and the lottery, even if it flys for 1 or 2 years it will leave a lasting impression on the younger generations like it did with me. Ever since those days that we were bundled in the car to see this great sight I have forever been interested in aircraft. I do not work in the field and so have an interest from the outside but as an engineer fully understand the technical issues that need to be overcome to fly these old magnificent achievements of Great Britain in its engineering prime. Will I get excited about a Tornado or Eurobox, no, the British aircraft are the best and remind us of our once greatness.

I commend anyone who works in the field and spends, donates or donates time to achieve this. Whilst I know Britain is no longer great as we have been pilaged by too many corrupt govenments with personnal greed in there minds. They can take our money but not our memmories or our pride.

The Vulcan team have fort many battles, but I for one hope they do succeed if only to prove good old British buldog spirit still survives.. My only regret is that I will not get to see it fly as I have left the country and now live in Reno…… cannot wait for the air races again….

Where else do you get to see 5 furies flying together…. fantastic…

Mark

This all seem’s rather simply to me! Melvyn has covered the technical issue’s and the ONLY way the Vulcan will fly for the long term is if a sponsor or wealthy indivdual comes forward. And you wont know the answer to that until you get there.

Best of luck to them but as Melvyn says dont expect to see it at many show’s – not many could afford it.

I too hope that the Vulcan will fly soon but I believe Melvyn’s earlier post is very sound and the difficulty will be how to keep the Vulcan running once its flown. I did doubt whether it would be completed ready for flight but I am sure that this will now happen(no thanks to me as I haven’t contributed – yet). I was not serving in the RAF when the Vulcan was withdrawn from use and the only one I’ve seen “in the flesh” so to speak in recent years is the one currently at the centre of all the fuss, it being a regular flying visitor to Scampton when I was there in the v early 90s. However, talking to my more senior colleagues at the Aeronautical Engineering College these days, their nostalgic view is of a very,very manpower, fuel, oil, you-name-it hungry aircraft which needed a phenomenal amount of resources thrown at it when compared with the more modern types which replaced it (if anything could replace a Vulcan) and they were glad to see the back of them! I still thought that the Vulcan was far more impressive at an airshow than the Red Arrows but that’s my personal view!

Phixer – Your arguement makes no sense .

Makes no sense to you perhaps but then are your views informed by knowledge of the industry and BAe’s (now BAE) role within it and the legacy on which it was able to be incorporated? Your attitude suggests not.

Because a machine is expensive to insure and operate the former manufacturer should support it?

Why not? After all the bill for insurance is a comparative pittance in the grand scheme of their operations which are unfortunately, and certainly as far as the UK is concerned, moving away from actually making any thing to being a service provider.

It appears that I am not alone in my views for Tim Laming expressed similar ideas when referring to the prospects for the BAE systems own XM603, see pages 106-7 of his book ‘The Vulcan Story 1952-2002’.

The Sea Vixen for example whilst a beautiful design saw no combat – what are you commemorating ?

The Sea Vixen did see combat, you are repeating a misconception that I have already answered elsewhere on the forum.

Also the Sea Vixen had a historical importance by being the first fully integrated British flying weapons system one that served the FAA well for many years. Indeed I suspect that, as old a design as it was, it would have given the Tornado FR3 a good run for its money. However this is off the Vulcan topic as such but the fate of last surviving Vixen is bound up in similar issues to those which this Vulcan is subject.

Similarily the guys out in South Africa could argue that they deserve a few cheques for keeping Buccaneers and Lightnings in the air.

If those who have managed to earn vast amounts of money decide to spend it in this way then good for them and I join with all those who applaud the effort – but here the effort clearly brings its own rewards – only wishing that I could afford to be able to go and actually see these jets in the air.

The fact that BAe has made money over the years is irrelevant – they are a company that employs people – should they lay off a few people so they can fund some old jets instead?

The fact that BAE largely owes the fact that much of its present wealth can be attributed to selling stock at high price after purchasing at below the value paid by the taxpayer is I would suggest good reason for BAE to support projects such as this.

To argue about laying off a ‘few people’ as you have done shows that you have not considered the realities of the modern multinational military-industrial (must not forget the dead hand role of financial institutions and big city bonuses any one of which could probably pay for insurance on both of these aircraft) complex.

As I said, if I were a CAA surveyor, then it would be just another aircraft and I would have been involved right from day 1 with the company covering it (Marshalls).

Off down to the aerodrome now for lunch….

I understand your point entirely, but with regards, if you were a CAA surveyor, would you have no apprehension about certifying such a large and complex aircraft? she isnt any other aircraft, correct me if im wrong but won’t she be one of the largest and most complex privately owned ex military aircraft in the uk? if not the world? 🙂