XX897 "80% airworthy" ?

Lordy.

Nice to see the argument so succintly put. Thanks Hatton.

Is teddy-throwing a compulsory characteristic for being involved with ground trundlers?

I didn’t get that impression at Elvington. All the Victor people seemed jolly level-headed sorts.

Moggy

Originally posted by buccsociety
Maybe I will mention some of these reply’s to the other teams at Brunty!!!
We are all letting our aircraft rot away, even though all of the taxiable aircraft at Brunty reply on all their systems being live and functioning properly to enable safe taxying.
Shall we all give up now and just go home!!!!!!

Don’t you think that is perhaps a little over the top? nobody here is belittling the efforts of teams at Bruntingthorpe, rather they are simply saying that flying an aircraft is better than ground running and if new colour schemes allow this then so be it.

Also, not every part on an aircraft is needed to be in 100% condition to allow it to be ground run, some parts of an aircraft will have much lower stress loadings during ground running (ie wings) and some higher (ie undercarriage) so it is obvious some parts may not be maintained as highly and the condition long term will not be as good (although still perhapsgood) as that as an aircraft in airworthy condition.

No one here has said that the teams at Bruntingthorpe should just give up! I think they do a great job and allow us to see aircraft we wont likely ever see flying again such as the Victor. However, if a big sponsor offered to get one of the grounded aircraft flying if it was painted in their colours then i would support a YES!

best regards. steve

Kodak,

Don’t worry, there is no chance that any of us will give up, we all spend a lot of time and effort to keep these machines in excellent condition and this will continue.
The buzz we get from restoring an aircraft to live status again is undescribeable.

Originally posted by buccsociety
Maybe I will mention some of these reply’s to the other teams at Brunty!!!
We are all letting our aircraft rot away, even though all of the taxiable aircraft at Brunty reply on all their systems being live and functioning properly to enable safe taxying.
Shall we all give up now and just go home!!!!!!

Never, ever give up at Brunty!!!

I really dont understand some people and their outspoken views !:D

Maybe I will mention some of these reply’s to the other teams at Brunty!!!
We are all letting our aircraft rot away, even though all of the taxiable aircraft at Brunty reply on all their systems being live and functioning properly to enable safe taxying.
Shall we all give up now and just go home!!!!!!

I agree with moggy. Sure the engine runs but everything else is rotting and and what isn’t is slowly fuseing itself together. setting is really tough on gyros, avionics, and hydraulics and fuel systems and just about everything else. I plane is like a body. Everything needs to be exercised.

Couldnt agree more!! Ex Military aircraft from the wartime or peacetime are still working aircraft and are still in some form of service. Ie, entertaining the public or starring in films.

Why is it that as soon as an aircraft leaves the military a line is drawn and it is not aloud to be painted in any colour other than one it has carried in service? The aircraft are still creating history everyday they are around, it doesn’t just stop the day it’s demobbed. Miss D’s colour scheme is fantastic and so is G-VETA’s lets create some new history instead of living in the past.

Why such an adverse reaction to commercial, fantasy schemes on hsitoric aircraft when very few people seem to react in such a way when a Luftwaffe scheme is stuck on a Nord or a Buchon! This is just as inaccurate!!!!!!!!!!!

Here’s my tuppence.
I love Miss D and Flacks fleet was again superb, I also love the Black Knight colours Haydon-Baillie had the T-33 in and as that was the original civilian owned jet in the U.K it should have been put back in those colours. I go for anything that is brightly coloured and not the boring drab schemes the U.K services painted these machines in. The Hunter is my all time favourite aircraft, one sheme i would love to see one flying in is the Indian Air Force Aerobatic team ‘The Thunderbolts’. I prefer the P-51 to the Spitfire, yes the Spitfire is a nice looking aircraft but why paint them up so drably, TD248 & RN201 exempt from that catagory. P-51’s are not only a nice looking aircraft but they have stunning paintjobs especially when highly polished. I go to airshows to see these kind of markings, not drabs. In my opinion if you want to see authenticity then open up a book and look at the photo’s.

Miss D was indeed under maintenance and only performed at Kemble and Shoreham last year.

M

Dont think I saw Miss D last year – was she in maintenance?
Dont know about bookings – would like to see a comparison. IIRC Ive seen Deltas black one and at least one of the Exeter jets far more than Miss D.
Miss D is a cracking demo though.

I certainly dont approve of additional artwork – I was referring in the main to the Lightnings. Havent seen the Bucc lately but at least one side of the Victor is OK “I dont believe it” that they painted that pointless artwork on the other!

OOPs!! Can open, worms everywhere!!

Great debate here even if my initial reply was a touch antagonistic
Any way;

I HATED the red Flack fleet and the later Brencham incarnations.The saving grace here was that there were still Spits, Hunters, Furies, JPs etc in decent schemes , indeed were still in service !

Even that Miss Demeanour monstrosity is OK as we still have a few decent hunters around (though weve lost the best – XF516, easily the most accurate warbird jet – an absloute gem)

Likewise those awful black and multi coloured strikemasters and JPs I can live with as long as they dont go to airshows but rather the few decent ones do.

And yes I hate the Black South African classic jet collection – get ’em in proper colours!

Bruntingthorpe – keep those jets rolling!!(except perhaps the Iskra!) Accurate schemes, the smell of avtur, real oil stains and the thunder of living jets. Yes I am eternally dissapointed to see brake chutes deploy and not a lightning or 2 screaming for the heavens at a great pace but the experience is there! If we cant fly ’em I think a lot more of this should be happening and Brunty would be a great venue to host them.

Originally posted by Moggy C
Kodak.

My comments on your ‘sadness’ were light-hearted, and meant purely out of pity for your inability to share the excitement of flight that I suffer from. 😉

We are each entitled to our own opinions, I just hope you didn’t take it as a personal insult.

If so, I apologise and retract immediately

Moggy

I should think so, Ive been in floods of tears from those nasty things you said!:rolleyes:

I think Im big and ugly enough to take a few punches and Ive been called worse!
Its just refreshing that threads like these allow us to air our opinions on subjects we ALL feel passionately for, though in different ways.
That said, anyone who disagrees with me is wrong!!:D

Originally posted by buccsociety
Regardless Moggy, Still not dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If we were all as defeatest as you their would be no live anything!!!!

Not me guv. I’m the one who was defending the adoption of sponsors colours to keep the aircraft in its element. It’s you who seems happy to condemn them to forever trundling up and down a strip of concrete.

Moggy

Theres no doubt i dont think on anyones part that places like Bruntingthorpe are a valuable part of preserving Britains Aviation Heritage BUT running an aircrafts engines up or taxing it about is anything like watching an aircraft in its true element.

ground running and static displays are NO substitute, great but always second best.

Regardless Moggy, Still not dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If we were all as defeatest as you their would be no live anything!!!!

Bruntingthorpe………..KEEPING THE SPIRIT ALIVE.

Originally posted by buccsociety
As for any ground bound aircraft being a deteriorating dead body, have you every visited Bruntingthorpe and seen & heard a dead Lightning F.6 (either XR728 or XS904) whined up to full power and afterburner then blast off down the runway?????

Umm………Not so dead after all!!!!!

I’m sure it’s very impressive. So is drag racing.

But a few seconds burst of power with the wheels firmly attached to the runway doesn’t make them aeroplanes

Moggy

As always – IN MY OPINION

Originally posted by buccsociety
Did anyone complain when Spencer Flack put his Spit into a non authentic colour scheme?????? NO all we heard and read was ‘Spencer Flack’s gorgeous RED Spit’.

As for any ground bound aircraft being a deteriorating dead body, have you every visited Bruntingthorpe and seen & heard a dead Lightning F.6 (either XR728 or XS904) whined up to full power and afterburner then blast off down the runway?????

Umm………Not so dead after all!!!!!

yes Buccsociety but for every aircraft in preserved running condition you can count easily another ten gathering dust or decaying, The lightnings at Bruntingthorpe, Shackletons nr Gatwick etc are definately the exceptions, welcome ones though 🙂

Like Moggy C, my tuppenceworth is, that if it makes the difference between flying or not, paint it in Mr Blobby house colours if need be. It can always be painted over again at some point in the future. Yes, I’d hate it, but I hate dead airframes more.

I didn’t like the red spit etc. I don’t much care for the silver Spit around now. Personal taste. But that said, you can always close your eyes and listen. Whatever it takes to preserve them is one thing, preference is another. I’d like to think that Coca Cola wouldn’t paint it in that way – does anyone seriously think thye would?