Your opinion on what or who is responsible for keeping GA in the twilight zone????

No Moggy, it’s far from stupid. I’d say it’s called being realistic. There’s no such thing as a universal aircraft as you and I well know. This in spite of the fact that Blackburn called the proposed civil variant of the Beverley the Universal Freighter and that was hardly an unmitigated success in my opinion (as far as I know the only operators of that lumbering beast were the RAF).

My theory, on bikes as well as aircraft, is that there is no single, perfect, solution.

In reality you need a stable of bikes. Financing permitted a stable of aircraft would work for me too.

A single aircraft that couldn’t be stalled etc?

What would be the point?

Or is that stupid of me?

Moggy

Re-reading the posts on this thread has got me thinking. If an aircraft is the best one for the job in hand then that is the one to purchase. With all the talk on here about dragging GA into the 21st century and it being an absolute neccessity why are all the people trying to build a GA 1/2 ton cargo capable STOL bush plane trying to build a modern version of an aircraft that made it’s first flight 50 years ago this year (and which there are quiet rumours about restarting production of). I’m referring of course to the ubiquitous de Havilland Beaver and the answer is simple. It’s the best machine for the job.
Not that I would expect Algorithm to understand that concept as he/she seems to have a somewhat one eyed perspective.

What’s so miraculous about ABS?

I know that, in extremis, I can brake my car faster with manual cadence braking than the abs system ever can. OK the steering and braking thing I can’t do as well, but then again years of ingrained training means I have never in a moment of need remembered that I can brake hard and steer at the same time.

Moggy

What would even be the point of ABS? Airliners & biz jets, wet runways, fairly obvious, but on smaller planes, bumpy short strips would it be any benefit?

I know ABS is available on motorbikes, but believe its not particularly helpful on offroad bikes, same thing as a strip aircraft I would have thought.

Over regulation by the CAA and the heavy handed way they go about things is the main thing holding GA back in this country. The American system is not perfect(nothing is) but has a more user friendly way of doing things.

AF, that is already happening. The machine says go there, so the pilot does. Monkey see, monkey do and so problems arise.

Plus, you have to factor in the ‘Volvo’ effect

When people think that the technology will protect them, they take less care about their driving.

It has been held that a large spike in the centre of the steering boss would have more benefit for overall road safety than the air bag has.

So how many Cirrus drivers have set off into marginal weather, or attempted a more risky flight than they would have done in a non-chuted type?

We will never know.

Moggy

I wonder, on a parallel subject, how many pilots in future may become too reliant on GPS and forget the basics of Navigation?

The psychology of pilots is fascinating.

Just last night in bed I was rereading (what an exciting life I have) the light twin book of the excellent 3 volume history of Cessna aircraft developmental histories as written by a long time aeronautical engineer and occasional test pilot (Cessna, Wings for the World, by Thompson).

He repeated the oft told tale that the Cessna Skymaster (336/337/O-2) weren’t as popular as management expected in part because of the center line thrust configuration’s safety benefits.

It seems some pilots didn’t wantt o admit that they wanted/needed a “safer” aircraft…that they were man enough to fly a conventional twin.

Plus, you have to factor in the ‘Volvo’ effect

When people think that the technology will protect them, they take less care about their driving.

It has been held that a large spike in the centre of the steering boss would have more benefit for overall road safety than the air bag has.

So how many Cirrus drivers have set off into marginal weather, or attempted a more risky flight than they would have done in a non-chuted type?

We will never know.

Moggy

Do Cirrus drivers ever actually practice a forced landing, or do they just practice pulling the handle. I practice a couple of forced landings every few months, and I keep on doing it unti I get it right.

Moggy

The American GA magazine Flying had an article about this awhiile back based on the first few years of the aircraft service.
In a couple of accidents pilots did not pull the chute when they should have…and in others they pulled the chute when they could have done a “simple” forced landing.

It comes down to mental state of the pilots. Some pilots hate to admit they’re in trouble even when they are.
They have “I can handle it” in the best tradition of wartime hero exploits.

It would be facinating to do a followup every few years and look at the accident histories to see how many lives were saved…the main thing, but also how many planes were WO when they didn’t need to be.

It really is a multi faceted question

How much progress do we actually want? The obvious answer is ‘as much as can make us / keep us safe’.

But with developments like the ballistic chute we are getting the suspicion that in adversity, rather than executing an engine-off landing in a field, owners are reaching for the handle and inevitably writing off an otherwise serviceable aircraft.

Do we want to reduce the skill level required to fly? It is a pretty unforgiving environment and there can’t be one of us who hasn’t considered the risks and elected to fly regardless, keeping ourselves as safe as possible by honing our skills.

Do Cirrus drivers ever actually practice a forced landing, or do they just practice pulling the handle. I practice a couple of forced landings every few months, and I keep on doing it unti I get it right.

What’s so miraculous about ABS?

I know that, in extremis, I can brake my car faster with manual cadence braking than the abs system ever can. OK the steering and braking thing I can’t do as well, but then again years of ingrained training means I have never in a moment of need remembered that I can brake hard and steer at the same time.

Just some random thoughts.

Moggy

ABS ON AIRCRAFT

Algorithm is taking a short compulsory break from the forum.

Meanwhile there is no reason that the discussion shouldn’t continue in a civilised manner amongst the rest of us.

Moggy

Whats going on here,when did they start fitting brakes,whats the matter with a tail skid,the irish linen is now plastic,and the engine has exhaust valves made from F1 blanks that do not fail at 20 hours,i call that real progress in 60 years.
Biggest problem in GA is finding a decent airfield cafe,We need a Dillows Franchise!!

Having held a licence for over 30 years I think GA is making advances in two directions. One is driven by the need to reduce operating costs and the other by upgrading the top end of the market.

The glass cockpits and composite structure is becoming commonplace and is light years ahead of what I learnt to fly on.

Engine design is moving away from the old flat air cooled units that dominated the scene for many years.

New VLA designs are helping to keep costs down.

So we are moving forwards but perhaps too slowly for some people.

My problem is weighing in at 100 kgs many of the new VLA’s do not have the load carrying capability to let me travel any distance!!!

Algorithm is taking a short compulsory break from the forum.

Meanwhile there is no reason that the discussion shouldn’t continue in a civilised manner amongst the rest of us.

Moggy

I am hoping that the lack of comments is due to you all being deep in thought!!!
I wait with baited breath for the outcome of your deliberations.:rolleyes:

No, it means we actually have a life away from the computer screen, do you think we sit in front of it 24/7 waiting for more of your diatribes? well you’re mistaken :rolleyes:

Support your fellow pilots.

I am hoping that the lack of comments is due to you all being deep in thought!!!
I wait with baited breath for the outcome of your deliberations.:rolleyes:

Before I get any more flack about the need for anti-skid brake systems on GA aircraft please read the following.

(1) The sealed 3000ft + runways that most of you operate from, are not the norm for 1000s of pilots in this world, in many countries there are very few if any sealed runways outside of the major city’s. ie Australia, PNG, South America, most of south east Asia, the list goes on and on.

(2) 1000s of pilots fly GA aircraft every day into remote airstrips in conditions that can and DO, make your hair stand on end, and your blood run cold, and they do this not for fun!!!!! It is all in a days work for them, and the aircraft they are flying is the best they can find for the job.

(3) Imagine!!! You’re in a GA aircraft (any GA aircraft) you have just turned into a valley with 12,000ft mountains each side and in front of you, you are praying that your nav is spot on because, if this is the wrong valley there is no way back, its too narrow to turn in!! and the terrain is rising in front of you, you are totally committed (no place for the faint hearted) you breath a sigh of relief when you spot the windsock perched on the mountain, now the fun begins!!!
The landing strip is one way, from the sheer cliff threshold to the to the rock wall that marks the end of the strip, it is at best 1000ft of bumpy uphill gravel, the wind is variable, and this strip is known for its vicious downdrafts/updrafts, but you are committed, you were when you turned into the valley 10 mins ago, now!! you land first pop or you die!!! No such thing as a go round here!!, its looking good the downdraft is steady, oh crap here we go!!!! firewall the throttle hold her, hold her, the downdraft eases you have only lost 400ft, but you are close to stalling, the strip is now 100ft above and half a mile it front of you, looking good you tell yourself as you pull it all together and push the carb heat to off, every little bit helps, BANG!!!! an updraft fires you upward, you are now 150ft above and 100ft from the threshold, kill the power nose down! DOWN!!! Speed rising fast!!! fight her to the ground slam her on 300ft in and if you are lucky maybe 700ft to the wall, you jump on the brakes the left wheel locks she swings you almost lose it, another bump more skidding !!! “STOP YOU MONGREL!! STOP“!!!!! finally you slide to a halt in a shower of gravel and dust, adrenalin pumping legs shaking, you close her down and climb out, the waiting company rep says Good flight mate? You reply, Yes mate excellent !!!;)
Pilots that fly operations of this type have a saying:

Any landing you walk away from was a good one,
If the aircraft can actually be used again that’s just a BONUS.

Its all in a days work for GA pilots the world over, so before you cast dispersions on the merits of fitting anti-skid brakes to GA aircraft, spare a though for your fellow pilots, who just like you are flying because they love it, give them the support they deserve and help them stay alive.:)

Happy landings

From that I am to assume you don’t have any figures?

Moggy

What figures are you reffering to ????????:confused:

Since all bizjets and many turboprops have ABS I’ll assume you’re talking about light GA aircraft.
I’d guess that ABS is not needed….fairly low landing speeds, light weight, not a lot of traffic on a runway where you have to apply brakes fast (unlike a motorway). Besides, anything that’s a VFR-type aircraft won’t be flying in a lot of rain.
Yeah, it might be nice on a “clean sheet of paper” aircraft but for GA aircraft under the size of a Bonanza, Probably not needed.
Just more stuff to break and service at annual time.

Now if they would prevent ground loops on taildragers…then you’d have something…😀

Yes mate at the moment I am talking 2500lb-3000lb 4 place GA . IFR.:confused:

I know for the uninitiated it is hard to understand the need for anti-skid brakes, but in some parts of the world GA aircraft are the only practical transport between towns, cattle stations, villages ect etc, short, ruff, short, gravel, short, sand, short, grass, sloping, short, wet, short, muddy, landing strips are the order of the day, did I mention SHORT!!!! Every day 1000s of GA aircraft make 1000s of landings on these strips, a very dangerous game and it kills many, so I vote we help them, give the poor sods anti-skid brakes, they don’t have to be invented a set of the shelf will do.:eek:

Sorry mate, I was told that ground loops on tail draggers are part of the nostalgic experience, ENJOY!!!:diablo:

.The need for anti-skid brakes may be greater than you think MOGGY.:)

From that I am to assume you don’t have any figures?

Moggy

Anti-skid systems are fitted to most aircraft and all cars, only GA seems to have been afflicted with the, we don’t need it bulldust!!!! As for certification it has already been done, anti-skid brake systems were first certified for use on aircraft in the late 40s and have undergone extensive development since.:)

Since all bizjets and many turboprops have ABS I’ll assume you’re talking about light GA aircraft.
I’d guess that ABS is not needed….fairly low landing speeds, light weight, not a lot of traffic on a runway where you have to apply brakes fast (unlike a motorway). Besides, anything that’s a VFR-type aircraft won’t be flying in a lot of rain.
Yeah, it might be nice on a “clean sheet of paper” aircraft but for GA aircraft under the size of a Bonanza, Probably not needed.
Just more stuff to break and service at annual time.

Now if they would prevent ground loops on taildragers…then you’d have something…😀