Just because the Russians suggested 8 years ago to fund the PAK-FA, the IAF is “gung-ho” about. Even though it DOES NOT meet preliminary requirements (source), they just don’t have it to flatly refuse the Russians (for whatever reasons like threat to open up to Pak, geopolitical reasons, etc). They panicked and are going ahead to bankroll the Russians, even though all indications suggest that there won’t be ANY worthwhile Indian engineering contribution on the FGFA.

I can see your point in a way, i.e. as an Indian Engineer working in India developing aircraft. However if you are sitting on the other side of the fence as an end user, would you realistically want to wait for the Engineers who have already let you down or would you plump for something that has already flown and done by a company that has proved over and again that they can produce lethal aircraft?

Its a no brainer, you cant just keep putting the IAF on the hook all the time unless and until you pull up the babus that have caused the delays and under achivements in the home grown projects.

If you want the IAF, IA, and IN to be dependent on Indian industry than put the onus on the DRDO to deliver world beating items in these fields.

and all these on PLA’s side will be out of brahmos’ range ? 😀 add fuel and ammo dumps, C3I nodes etc to that.

seems like refusing to acknowledge a gap in original argument. 😉

Rahil leaving out the cheeky sarcasm and getting serious for a minute, I do not understand your first point.

Also i do not see what you mean by the second point, original argument was that the purchase of the 155mm howitzer was probably more important for Indian Army than mass purchase of the Brahmos.

All i have said is that the howitzer is more important for India than the Brahmos for the northern border and that the Brahmos would be more of a irritant.

A pinaka system carries 12 rockets I believe each carrying a 200Kg warhead with a range of 40kms (? going by my ageing memory now). This system costs the Indian Army $1,000,000 I presume? maybe even less. It is just as mobile as a brahmos unit but can take out a much larger area.

My rather simple point is that when you deal with the PLA you are not dealing with a small country with a few hundred men who have not had the experience of fighting a dirty war of atrition.

I am sure i have probably written a few things in error but i do not see a gap in my statement that artillary would be more useful for the Indian Army.

Well, I assume that missiles like brahmos are usually deployed only against very specific high value targets based on the progress of the war scenario to effect a major bang for the buck. Unlike regular artillery, including MBRLs, which can be used for massed fire power, Brahmos will be used in a very surgical role.

Now, if we splurge on brahmos, because of its cutting edge lethality as compared to other systems in existence, then we can use brahmos in larger numbers, choosing to hit targets that would otherwise be left for bofors or pinaka etc.

While this may be financially unwise, it could give a major shock and awe to the enemy at the front line as they will be unprepared for a mass attack by such a precision high speed weapon system like brahmos.

When faced with an enemy like China, who has overwhelming numbers and (IMO) ruthlessness on the human and other costs to their own citizens, something like a brahmos mass attack could be our ace in the sleeve to bring their first thrust to a sudden stop, giving us and the world time to make counter plans.

All the above is assuming India’s next real war will be against a surprise attack by China aiming to grab land in Arunachal/Sikkim and then negotiate a truce thus changing the border forever.

So you want to show the use of the technology of the Brahmos? The opposition army isnt going to go.. ooh wow look at all that technology, we have just been hit by a 200kg bomb flying at mach 3.0 with a 300km we must stand back.. ooohh..

Whey spend $1,000,000 to do the same thing that you could do with something that costs $1,000?

Also realistically if you look at the map of the north where do you think you would use such an missile with such a range?

This is also my fear when India is spending around US$ 5-6 Billion on PAKFA. To add salt to wound of my fears, MCA has been earmarked only US$ 1 Billion

Surely that is correct. if you are holding the purse strings in the MOD would you put more money in a system that has not even flown and is a wind tunnel model made by agencies that have not yet delivered on a earlier promise or would you put the money towards a system that has flown has not only shown potential but has started to realise it?

They are doing the totally correct thing..

dude, check the range of Brahmos. Unless you are interested in hitting Buddhist temples, there really isn’t a lot of point using Brahmos against China at the moment.

Exactly, it would just irritate!

Only thing you could realistically do is provide a umbrella of protection for your troops from 150/200 kms away and provide fire support. Very expensive artillary and mis use of such an expensive system.

Raptor killer or maybe pudgy plane killer?

Hej, look at that! This guy actually almost made it!!!

Sukhoi SU-41 “Fistfull

Since we are free to speculate for the time being, do you think a 2d IR-hiding nozzle will be incorported in the long run??

How much can you put on the persons information that the original T-50 fell by the way side and the T-51 replaced it?

i am confused by the thread..

Is it a question of whether europe should buy the JSF or not? Surely too late for that question isnt it? I mean its buying it.