bronchoAlright we are drifting away from the main topic. Lets all get back to the chinese carriers and when they might make an appearance.
bronchoF-14 was a piece of **** and F-15 only has its supposed impeccable record because US/Israel only fought nations far weaker than it and a numerical superiority of 10:1.
The Mig-25 was ideal for many nations unlike the SR-71 which only US could afford. Mig-25 was a fighter which could go very fast and very high unlike SR-71 which had no fighting capability and was only developed for recce purposes.
bronchoThe Mig 29K has 9 hard points. The Mig-29 M and SMT have 8 as far as I know.
bronchoThe way I see it, Israeli voters have right to elect a premier minister who has no real influence on the foreign policy, whatsoever. This ain’t a true democracy for me.
That is true in almost any democratic society. Its not like Indian PM can decide when to nuke pak. He has to go through the lok sabha and finally the president (who is not democratically elected by the people).
Funny, but the whole existence of Hezbollah is only a reaction on 1982. We can go like this on and on.
Which ended in 2000. Why were they present in 2006 to reignite the fire??
Last time I checked, SAMs were strictly defensive weapons. Nothing Israelis have to worry about if they are oh so friendly. BTW, Syria is only armed according to their economical situation, unlike Israel. And finally, Syria is not nuclear and likely won’t be anytime soon. A BIG difference, my dear.
What about the copies of chinese missiles, silkworm, shebab-1,2,3? These are defencive? If syria doesn’t have a benefactor that is not israels problem. Syria wishes it could be nuclear but they are incapable of it. If they know they are weak they shouldn’t be trying to needle the bully, especially when the bully does not pick on them.
If you are so plain naieve to think that Saddam conducted the war with Iran alone, then I don’t need to go further.
If you think once war starts people and countries will not egg them on to sell as many weapons as possible, you are a simpleton. All it needs is a lunatic to start the war russia, US and china will line up to sell weapons to both the sides.
Not quite. As long as Americans are gone from Iraq, they are finally free to care about Iran. If Ahmadinejad really wanted to invade Israel, the best time would be now, as long as US forces are held in Iraq.
No once americans are gone iran is free to help hezbollah and hamas. The only scenario they fear is if US manages to bring peace to iraq and afghanistan. Then US can royally screw them as they wish.
I am against nuclear Iran, too. And at the same applies to Israel. A small fart on the map like Israel has no right to posses nukes, point.
When did size of a nation determine if they could have nukes or not? Why does a gross human right violator like china have the right to nukes? Why does a perennial beggar like pakistan that survives on hand outs from US need nukes? Why do US and russia both of whom have blood of thousands need 3000+ nukes? Why does Britain need nukes when no one is interested in attacking them? On top of it their SSBN’s are loaded with american missiles. Why does india which despite its economic groth has 26-28 % people under poverty line need nukes?
bronchoIf you learn more about how things are in Israel you will see that current premier minister only has surprisingly limited control over what is going on in military and paramilitary. Since Jicchak Rabin has been removed from post due to bank account scandal back in 80s, Mossad only has informational duty towards the ministry – ergo they are obliged to provide information about the conducted operations AFTER they already happened, nothing more. That is light years from true democracy and in reality provides power and control in the hands of few chosen (not elected) – which is called autocracy, at best. Different kind than in Arab countries, but still an autocracy.
And you think US military or any other military lets the politicians know everything? In that case you are very naive. Israel is the only real democracy in middle east and no amount of spin can take make it a lie. The way people of israel vote depends on their perception of who would provide them better security and economy, while arabs have absolutely no say in any matter regarding their own country.
Does it mean Lebanese should invade now? Because if Syrian assistance is called needle, then Israeli invasion is at least a sledgehammer.
Didn’t they?? Hezbollah is lebanese. If they can’t control the actions of their own citizens why cry out when punished? Ofcourse israeli attack was severe but it was a reaction. If you can’t do time then don’t go for crime.
.. according to the same logic Lebanon, Syria or Palestine have the right to be armed and on guard against any misadventure from Israel which is currently among the most aggressive countries I am aware of.
They don’t??? which world are you living in? Syria just signed a massive deal with russia for SAM’s. Iran and syria buy missiles from russia regularly. Why do you only have a problem when israel arms itself and not when these tinpot dictators or autocrats do?
It is very neieve to think that mobilizing 66mil people to war only takes one idiot waking up in a bad mood, picking up the red phone and say – let’s get the thing done -. Ahmadinejab does not hold a fraction of such power.
It only took one lunatic in the form of saddam to start the 10 year iran-iraq war. It only took an retard like musharraf to start the kargil war. Just in case you were slumbering all along Iran has the Baseej that number close to a million who would follow the ayatollahs and ahemadinejad gladly to their own death and destruction.
Ahmadinejad need to retain the votes, which is often much harder than get some. He is in a pretty difficult position now – his effort is aimed at keeping Americans busy in Iraq so that they keep off the Iranian border – such thing as open invasion to Israel is currently completely beyond his interests.
He is not in any sort of difficult position. Its not like he is going to be impeached as long as he toes the ayatollahs line. Who is talking about invading israel now? He can afford to wait till the americans have gone. That does not mean he is not a threat.
The very idea of Israel being under threat is a bloody hypocrisy which is misused by Israelis on everyday basis.
I really hope French are not so stupid to back up Israel and rather stay impartial.
If none of the neighbours have any evil intentions against israel why not recognise them? After all syria and israel have no dispute? Sheeba farms can be returned to lebanon once they establish diplomatic ties. Thankfully french are not as stupid and are completely opposed to iran going nuclear. I can’t see them taking a position against israel on this issue.
bronchoWell, yes. But you obviously cannot look at Arab countries or Iran through the scope of Western point of view. If those people really wanted liberal democracy, they would already have had it. While I certainly would not want clerics and hardliners in my government, looks like many Iranians prefer this option.
So you agree its not 7 million against 300 million but 7 million against a handful of dictators, autocrats and mullahs. The iranians who want the mullahs don’t want them to start a war with israel but elect them so that they can help eradicate poverty and bring more uniform growth to rural areas.
Because they are weaklings.. Sticking with needle is the only thing they can do now.
Israel has no reason to take these needles quietly now do they? No country does. I certainly can’t see US, UK, France, germany or russia doing anything different.
That is very simple. Hezbollah is a political power now living from the rage and hate of Lebanese left behind. As long as they have enough reasons fo hating Israelis (and they have plenty now), Hezbollah will survive. No one will give up his political power just like that, Nasrallah is no exception. The main goal for the Israelis shouldn’t be ‘How do we make Nasrallah to stop talking his cheap antisemitic trash?’ but ‘How do we make Lebanese ignore him?’
Then israel does face a threat and has the right to be armed and on guard against any misadventure from hezbollah, syria or hamas.
Of course.. Especially Ahmadinejad. He was elected as a hardliner, have you forgotten? What else can he do than talk as a hardliner? He is expected to do that by his voters. Finally, in what way was Khomeini different?
He is a hardliner and also the top official of the country. He can take decision to go to war. The mullahs will side with him on this matter. When an elected official keeps ranting about wiping out a democratic nation then it is not simply to gain votes. He is already got the votes. This is another threat israel faces and needs to prepare against. But for this they will need US and france on their side and from this POV it was stupid to antagonize the french.
bronchoI don’t think the deal fell due to AMRAAM. IN does not use AMRAAM and never wanted it, unless they want a few to study them. IN will go for R-77 with Mig-29K and Derby missiles. It probably had more to do with cost of removing the blue vixens and upgrading them with Elta radars so that they could fire Derby or pythons.
bronchosyria, khazakstan possibly algeria?
bronchoWe have come to the point where 7 million people want to dictate the whole Middle Eastern region and their arrogance has reached beyond any borders.
Iraq – no comment, they got tons of own problems now
Jordan – US ally, tolerant towards Israel, even with diplomatic service
Egypt – US ally, says pretty much all
Syria – weak, obsolete, with secular autocratic government, a joke for Israeli military
Iran – strong words, no action, limited industrial base, under constant close examination of the US
Lebanon – Hezbollah, with 60s equipment, oriented on internal problems, as long as Israelis put hands off Lebanon, they surely won’t attack Israel on large scale
Palestine – Arafat dead, HAMAS struggling with civil problems like infrastructure or medication, population divided and left without any serious political choiceNow let me ask you again.. Who does today’s Istrael have to fight against for its very survival? Who is directly endangering their very existence? If you are unable to answer this question, they all your arguments about ‘the right of Israelis to defend themselves’ are pointless.
The helpless prey has grown to become the bird of prey but seems like many haven’t noticed yet.
And yet surprisingly these 7 million people are the only ones who have the right to express there opinion in the entire middle east. All the other countries you quoted with their 200-300 million population are controlled by a tin-pot dictator or a coertie of crooks like ayatollahs.
If syria is a weakling why does it still interfere with internal affairs of lebanon? What buisness does hezbollah have in lebanon now that israel is not there? Iran is no military power but they have enough missiles and weapons thanks to china. Who does israel have to defend themselves against?? Just incase you didn’t notice each of these countries when threatened react with threats to wipe out israel, irrespective of wether israel is involved or not!!!.
If the israelis buzzed the germans or french then it is not something new. All countries keep an eye on foriegn powers in their regions. The only difference is some bitch decided to sensationalize it and use it for political gains.
bronchoWell since china’s experience with carriers is piecing together pieces of scrap thay might want to buy them in order to study the design.
But on a serious note I think they can still be sold to anyone wanting a Helicopter/commando carrier. They are perfect in that role.
bronchoWith China ordering advance versions of the Su-33 Flanker. Will that push India to ordering Super Hornets from the US in the short-term and possibly Lightnings down the road?
No. I can’t see IAF being worried about Su-33 and IN just won’t go for F-18. You have quoted no figures to support the claim that F-18E/F can take off from Gorky or ADS without a catapult. How much load can it carry? I am sure without catapult it can’t carry 7 ton load. Su-33 can carry 6.5 ton while Mig-29K can manage more than 4.5 ton.
Of the countries you quoted, Only France will operate Rafale from carrier, US will operate F-18, JSF and UK might get JSF. None of these are considered as a threat or enemies by IN, so why worry about them?
Other than delaying the ADS by another 5-10 years there will be very little to gain by jumping the boat and going with french or british design at this stage. CDG took a long while to complete despite their prowess in desiging and building so called big ships, lets see if the can do any better with CVF and PA2.
bronchoThe comment about USN was just to show that you don’t learn how to ioperate carriers by reading manuals and watching someone else do it.
OF course DCN has more experience but isn’t the cavour closer to what IN wants? French carriers have had catapults, while IN did not have the option of one.
What is wrong with India seeing UK and DCN’s help to make ADS-2? This would easily make the carrier 60k + in size. The ADS-1 has been modified enough, let it be. China does not have all these advantages: US,UK or France won’t train them. DCN or other firms won’t help them build a carrier, yet you seem to think they would find it easy to operate the unmaintained varyag easily?
bronchoIndeed, once the Indians have SSN’s I have no doubt that they will be proficient in both their strategic and tactical use within a few years. At a strategic level and even tactical most information is available through open sources, and as for the spefic use of systems it is no different to training for any other warship. An indivdual is trained to perform his/her paticular task. I believe the IN chose the wrong western help, personally I feel that DCN would have been a far better choice and that their help should have extended to the hull and systems designs. If you have any evidence to suggest further foreign involvment I will happily hear it.
Really how would seeking DCN’s help in making a conventional powered carrier very similar to cavour be the correct choice?
What is wrong with Pilot training with US navy?
DCN was involved in the initial stages of ADS but them lost out to the italians. I don’t see them complaining.
bronchoIf you notice the link, it says “upgrade naval flagships”. That would be the delhi class destroyers if not viraat. If it was for P-15a then they just need to install it not upgrade. Also we really don’t now if this is for IN.
bronchoCopy of what? ADS is no copy of vikrant or viraat or gorky. Why take help from Italy if you just needed to copy something. If anythin it might resemble an enlarged Cavour.
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