Really, the F-35 will be able to be customised like no fighter before it! I wouldn’t be surprised (for example) some countries want a probe equipped F-35A or a gun equipped F-35C……..talk about mix and match.:D

would it be possible to have an F-35A with both a boom and a receptacle or would that cut out the gun?

speaking of which, why doesn’t the USAF move to probes for smaller planes?

with the KC-45 you’ll be able to refuel 3 planes at once instead of just one, seems like a huge advantage

Show me proof of orders ( of course after proof of a working Block III jet ) and I’ll be more impressed.

why do you keep saying this when you know it’s too early for large batches of firm orders?

check back in 7 years and you’ll see your orders

until then, it’s not an issue

as for countries looking at alternatives, well of course, they would be stupid not to

if there is some huge problem with the F-35 they need a backup plan, but it is just that, a BACKUP plan

also, when negotiating, you always have a credible alternative to help get you the best price. Saying this is your one and only choice is just asking to get taken for a ride

Not really considering the corresponding shrink in electronics. :confused:

In fact, from that perspective, it (and nearly all other military aircraft) are **** poor when it comes to the capability growth = weight growth relationship.

capability is not solely about electronics

capability is also about increased range (more fuel)
capability is also about internal carriage / stealth

as far as electronics go, the original F-16 didn’t even have a radar

the F-35 will have a very sophisticated radar and an electro-optical sensor suite the envy of anything this side of a U-2

I don’t think manouverability is the be all and end all. But I do think its extremely stupid for an aircraft that is supposed to be around for the next 30-40 years to be banking on current VLO technology (and little else) to keep it safe.

well what do you think a new plane should bank on to keep it safe?

speed? can you outrun a mach 5 missile?
manoueverability? can you outturn a 20G missile?

ever since Gary Powers, the US has given up on trying to outfly a missile

so if not stealth, what is your answer to safely avoiding SAMs?

According to the Russians, the S-400 can already deal with such aircraft at long ranges – what do you think is going to happen in 20 years?

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

that’s freaking hilarious

anyways, do you agree that at whatever range it could detect an F-35, it could detect an F-16 even further away?

yes or no

1. neither is the JSF last time I checked.

perhaps i should have clarified, the MiG-35 isn’t even PLANNED to become operational, it is tech demonstrator not unlike the Berkut

2. The EF-T can live with the F-22 in virtually all areas

that’s a remarkable claim considering they’ve never flown against each other

yes I’m familiary with the internet friend-of-a-friend-of-a-friend-in-a-pub rumor about the raptor and EF going toe-to-toe

the problem is, there’s no evidence to support it

Dozer, one of the main F-22 pilots was very dubious of it. He said he had never heard of it happening and he doubted that it could have happened without him knowing about it. I’m going to need something more than an anonymous internet rumor

sensors – upgrades to the 77 will bring it in line with the 83

the optics for see-through-plane will never be fitted to the F-22

So does the F-22 not have enough range?

well more is always better

are you saying having more range would never be helpful?

1. Not as costly as the JSF farce currently is.

you’re wrong, trying to restart a production like that’s been shut down is hugely expensive

and that’s assuming they still have the tooling

and plus they won’t stick with the previous design, they’ll have to ‘update’ it

3. And JSFs are going to be soooo different (because Lockheed said so).

well that was enough for you when it was the Russians 😀

seriously, control systems have evolved tremendously, i certainly would expect it to be substantially improved

Which is how many years old?!?!

Achieving parity with a 30 year old design is not exactly what I call an advance!!!

1. it is when you consider all the capability (weight) that has been added

2. you seem to think manouverability is the be all and end all of combat

i don’t know how to be more blunt

you’re wrong

the MiG-29 is more manoueverable than the F-15

here’s a little homework assignment for you:
how many F-15s has the MiG-29 shot down?
how many MiG-29s has the F-15 shot down?

In terms of manouverability, the Rafale, EF-T, MiG-35 etc would have it for breakfast.

1. the MiG-35 isn’t an operational plane
2. as far as the Rafale and EF, proof?

A paper aeroplane I can make in 5 seconds would represent parity with the SH – not really much of a baseline for comparison :diablo: 😀

so what’s your proposal for replacing the SH?

4. there is more to being an effective multi-role fighter than simply kinematics. stuff like range, loiter ability, stealth, sensors, network capability, helmet cuing . . .

And compared to the F-22 the F-35 has advantages in……

range, loiter ability, sensors, network ability, cost

electronics (except range)

the F-35 will have a greater range than the F-22

it doesn’t have the range or the sensors (which are sort of important in a) finding a target and b) making sure it is the right target)

Which it is due to get in software upgrades (apart from range)

no, the F-35 has sensors the F-22 never will

except that the F-35 will carry more further faster more reliably safer cheaper than the Harrier while being less vulnerable to SAMs

CHEAPER?!?!

yes

1. how much do you think it would cost to restart production? it certainly wouldn’t be cheap

2. Harriers are expensive to maintain, the F-35 should cost less in this regards

3. Harriers are finnicky and accident prone. Losing planes and pilots is expensive. Hopefully the F-35 will be more user friendly and safer and not have as many ‘accidents’

http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2003/national-reporting/works/national1.html

ONE THIRD OF THE FLEET HAS CRASHED, 45 officers dead, and that was 4 years ago

more later . . .

So what would be the real-world advantage of the F-35 airframe over a Super Hornet in prolonged operations?

1. it’s disingenuous to throw out first-day strike capability

there may arise situations where carrier assets are the only ones available

if all you have is F-18s, well what then? send them to the slaughter?

if carriers are only useful for sustaining operations and not for kicking the door down, then they’re the most colossal waste of resources in the history of mankind

2. RANGE

my main complaint against the F-18 is that it is so short-legged that carriers now have to operate closer to shore and are thus much more vulnerable to all sorts of nasties than in the days of the A-6

The F-35 will have longer range than ANY figher currently in US inventory (yes longer than the F-15 and F-22) which will improve the situation greatly

do you remember the comment from that Australian at Red Flag?

As far as I was aware, foreign airforces are never allowed to fly AGAINST the F-22, only with it.

So, no, I don’t recall the comment.

http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041725

Pilots from the 65th and 64th AS, including exchange pilots from the Royal Australian Air Force and Royal Air Force, of Australia and England respectfully, expressed their frustration related to flying against the stealthy F-22.

“The thing denies your ability to put a weapons system on it, even when I can see it through the canopy,” said RAAF Squadron Leader Stephen Chappell, F-15 exchange pilot in the 65th AS. “It’s the most frustrated I’ve ever been.”

We aren’t talking IRST here, I’m talking sidewinder type seekers. They only need a small range.

do you remember the comment from that Australian at Red Flag?

even when he had a visual on the raptor, he couldn’t get a lock

just getting ‘close’ isn’t good enough for a small radar

That leaves 150/100 billion or so over – which would buy 1500/1000 Raptors.

See what I’m getting at now?

no

however many raptors it will buy, it will buy more F-35s. There is no way to get the F-22 unit price as cheap as you can get the F-35 unit price.

There’s also geopolitical considerations here. The US needs a cheap fighter that it can export to all its friends to replace the F-16. The F-22 will never be cheap.

And again, the raptor will never operate off a carrier, and to me this is very, very important. Often it is the carrier aircraft that will be the first-line of attack, and to have no stealth planes available is very troubling

Also the UK and Italy and possibly India in the future and others will need something to operate off their carriers and I don’t think we want to give that market to rafale and mig-29k

and frankly, the F-35 is more advanced than the raptor ever will be. It might not have the raw power but it’s avionics and data-linking and helmet display will never be matched by the raptor.

It is a superior ground attack plane and is cheaper to maintain and thus for the majority of missions is the better choice

Never? Someone ought to tell BAe that their latest toy (prototype currently being built) will never exist.

“The brains of Taranis are now designed and coherent. What we have designed is a system that can autonomously control the aircraft to taxi, take off, and navigate its way to a search area while reacting to any threats or other events. It will then route its way around the search area in whichever way it wants to, locate the target, and then use its sensor system to transmit a series of images and views back to the operator to confirm it is the target to be attacked. Then, once it has been authorised to do so, it autonomously attacks that target, routes its way back home, lands and taxies back.”

Chris Allam, BAE Systems’ Taranis project director, 25 Jun 2007.

Note that the human operator is in there solely as a safety measure, to confirm the target selected by the UAV can be attacked.

which is no different than traditional UAVs except a possible reduction in man-hours required to run them

they are still vulnerable to the exact same thing, namely:
1. jamming to cut the link home so it can’t get authorization
2. homing on its electronic emissions to shoot it down
3. destruction/disabling of its control satellite which would render the whole fleet useless

when i say autonomous, i mean no signal to detect or jam and no choke point (like a satellite) that could render your entire fleet useless

that will never happen because like you said, having a human confirm is a safety feature that they will never ever give up

The marine corps have no need for a LO platform

marines will never fight in the vicinity of a hostile SAM site? that’s a pretty remarkable claim

A marine unit will never deploy without accompanying USAF or USN assets. Whats the point flying off dinky little assault carriers with a quarter load of munitions when the USN could do it off a pukka deck and have 4+ times the warload?

um, LHAs and LHDs deploy independently of carriers all the time

why not fly from a carrier? because one might not be in the area?

plus they have long enough decks that they will do better than a quarter load . . .

You cannot design 1 airframe for the USAF and the USN, the requirements are too different, the end result is an average plane for both forces.

that’s your opinion. i believe the F-35 will prove you wrong

(as a side note, most here seem to disagree with you as they think the F-22 would be perfectly fine for both the AF and Navy 😉 )

Multiple seeker head missiles.

Have an IR head that is radar cued into the vicinity with clever packaging a distributed AESA system can go around it). The seeker will be an improvement on the LOAL concept.

1. the F-22 and F-35 are built with IR stealth in mind so they will still perform better than any legacy fighter
2. IR doesn’t work in all weather conditions (clouds for instance)
3. this would be a very complicated (and expensive) system that won’t be available for years and then only to very select states

the point is, whatever system they come up with, the F-22 and F-35 will be better equipped to deal with it than any legacy fighter