That organic protection will have to come from the “052C” class ships like the DDG 170, and possibly ships using the RIF Ms they bought.

The Type 052C may even be fitted with Rif. Time will tell.

The YB-40 being the escort variant of a converted B-17F, and from what I’ve read, some variants were modified with as many as 30-40 guns!!

Anyone have any images?

Thanks!

Tried the Historic forum? 🙂

Superb……… nearly operational Raptor! 🙂

I wonder about the enhanced thrust with upgraded TF-34s… To what degree?

Firstly Balckcat, I am not bashing the Soviet Navy. I am trying to make a point with regards to the large supersonic cruise missile carriers and their vulnerability at sea once they have expended their primary loads. And trying to relay that point toward the PLAN and it’s own Sovremenny acquisition, and the effectiveness of their use of them in war.

and this is Carlo Kopp too …

Well I do not agrre to all his views and yup I also smell some sort of bias sometimes, but to just laugh off his every other comment which happens to say something good on the Russian’s wud be to say that Janes is a complete non-sense, though I believe they are not that accurate too and not an unbiased source either.

Second, I am not laughing at everything Kopp says about the Russians. But his strategic arguments for Australia defence force procurement are often laughable. A lot of people more qualified than myself share similar views about his various, and sometimes dubious conclusions. People can be highly knowledgeable and so foth, but still right a LOT of biased crap. Even worse is an editor that allows it to be published. Believe me, Kopp has dug his own grave and lost a lot of credibility as an Australian defence writer and analyst.

but Glenn, don u think that that was the purpose of these, to destroy their opponents with a voley of these unstoppable missiles , but these are not out at sea alone but have the support of the AD ships …. and the chinese ones are also having the sa-n-12 ….. so even if they happen to be out alone they do have atleast decent enough capablity to repel an air-attack … but it wud be insane to think that Sov’s are just gonna go like that the most probable wud be like these chaps heading a task groups, which also will be equipped with AshM’s as well….

I understand, but it is counter-surface attack that I am thinking of primarily, not air attack. Expending the SS-N-22s has nothing to with a fighter IN FLIGHT trying to attack you with ASMs.
If the group has to do more work just protecting the empty Sovs then their combined effectiveness is going to be reduced for other tasks. I don’t expect the Chinese to be insane and they would probably use their Sovs within range of land-based air cover. BUT, if they get adventurous and send them out beyond that cover, they will become vulnerable, and need greater organic protection from their own task group.

Like I said, it is an opinion. 🙂

maybe a single engine rafale in future??

A cheaper single-engined Rafale is not going to work for export if Dassault are still marketing the Mirage 2000-5 Mk.2. It would cost a fair bit to develop and build a new modified Rafale, and it would essentially be a whole new plane. I seriously doubt the French would pay for that, as the export potential would again be limited in the shadow of the still popular Mirage 2000 series. Any potential customer for a modified Rafale 2 (or half-a-Rafale in this case?) would probably have to cough up for the R&D, and in the end the whole plan would not at all be worth it, especially if it were only for a small batch of them.

I am of the opinion that the current generation of Mil Av aircraft in service or about to come into service are a by product of economic realities more then design requirements and optimisations.

I do like multirole aircraft with the OOHH factor, but a part of me wishes the industry would go back to produce aircraft that were optimised for their required roll and mission profiles.

for example, a Pure interceptor, bomber etc etc.

What are the feelings of the rest of the forum ?

Would be nice, but the days of the near bottomless cold war budgets have long gone, and so with that has the finance for developing and building mono-role combat aircraft.