Are you being daft on purpose or what ? Who said anything about enforcing fishing limits with SSK’s ? I meant for patrol or defense of EEZ or better yet I should say territorial waters against enemies surface combatant ships and vessels.

And about the kurils. I was going to write a long reply ..but chance of you acting daft again. I ain’t going to bother.

End of the day is. You lost them, the Russians got them. Get the **** over it or retake them.

(even for the Pacific the case is tenuous, IMHO).

Why ? A fleet of 15 SSK’s would be a bigger deterrent for the Japanese not to think about the kurils, rather then stationing troops, SAM’s and anti coastal systems there. The SSK are basically ideal for the defence of the EEZ.

And then you woke up and stopped dreaming.

Well, according to this list, one Mi-24 was lost to small arms fire, compared to none for the Apache:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aviation_accidents_and_incidents_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan

But these statistics are basically meaningless. An AH-64 is designed to survive small arms fire, including 14.5 mmm and RPG-7, by not flying within range of such weapons. Why do you think the Apache carries a 30 mm gun, and all that expensive electronics, laser rangefinders, night-vision, etc?

More Chinooks have been shot down than Apaches – wonder why?

I said they took a punishment from .57 Cal. I never said it couldn’t be brought down by it. It was never meant to take a .57 Cal ..but it did and quite well at that.

And nice source mate somehow Apache’s keep crashing but it’s not mentioned even why ? I agree on the last part though, but why you even brought that up i have no idea.

Never heard so far of any Russian official confirming the range of Onisk , the Navy chief is on record stating Kalbir range is 2500 km but nothing on Onisk.

Indeed, but look at the timeframe the missile was developed and it’s size. That alone should tell you it range would be between 400~500 km.

The klub missiles having longer range(minus anti sub missiles) was also not a shocker.

Pretty sure Mi-8 were brought done by .57 Cal. I highly doubt Hueys and Apaches would fare any better. Certainly not a barrage from a .57 cal.

Heck, weren’t all three of the heli’s susceptible to 7.62×39mm rounds ?

Taking .57 Cal and still flying isn’t a myth. It did so in Afghanistan. The side glass wasn’t bullet proof I think that I suppose you could add to “low ballistic protection”. Overall that statement is idiotic, the hind is basicly Belladonna’s asshole of the rotorcraft. It can take a lot !

Yep, it looks like it’s a bot or something. You can find him on defence talk also. Doing the same stick, never posting anything besides weeks or months old news. Never responding to other members or the mods.

They banned it …why exactly haven’t we banned it yet ?