What the hell?!?

Ustinov is getting Podberezovik! After all the announcements that it would have no modernization, this is outta nowhere.

Capability aside, this might ruin the lines on an otherwise pretty ship.

I was thinking when will you post this. 😉 And where are you getting this announcements that it would have no modernization ? Because i can give you couple of links stating otherwise. I was however thinking they wouldn’t upgrade the SAM’s much except replace the Fort with Fort-M. But with berezovik showing up they will most likely install Redut-K(Krepost) and probably all big cell’s config.

What do you think the fregat radar will be replaced with on Ustinov ? Gorshkov’s 5P-27 AKA Furke-4 ?

http://www.npo-prz.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=167:-5-27-5-27&catid=26:2012-06-25-08-40-22&Itemid=70

Or 5P-27M ( Picture is of Almaz’s furke-2 for some reason probably a mistake by however updates the site )

Willing to bet money that if this 20386 thing materializes it will just be a 20385 with a new radar to replace the less than impressive Furke and no other major changes. Nothing else on the type needs replacing.

20385 is supposed to have an AESA.

http://vpk.name/news/54672_gosti_morskogo_salona_v_peterburge_uvideli_korabli_budushego.html

Также на нем установлена интегрированная оптронная мачта. Она будет полностью на активных фазовращателях, со сканированием сигнала и по вертикали и по горизонтали, и с первичной обработкой около 500 целей и порядка нескольких десятков для вторичной обработки с выдачей целеуказаний на другие корабли.

http://itar-tass.com/armiya-i-opk/1508847

Marked keel-laying for a new corvette (project 20386) is planned to happen in 2015.

As if currently in being built four different and 1 sub class, corvette classes weren’t enough as it is. TR1 what does removable combat modules mean ? are they pkanning to make it like an LCS ?

1-there are many more english books compared to russian books
2-the time Russian authors written the info may be classified but later when Western author write about it ,it no longer classified

1. Well yes overall there are more english written books and translated books to english then Russian. No ****. But on russian military equipment and with remotly same accuracy as of russian authors. No

2. The specs on Granit that have been floating on the net have been around since at least 2001. And even older then that when they didn’t even know how this missiles even looked like for ****s sakes.

http://xxrntcs.devhub.com/img/upload/kirovtt.jpg

this is purely speculation
but even if that was true then they are most likely different in max range , stronger seeker (alot easier to change )
top speed ,on the other hand very hard , almost impossible to increase

Domestic and export versions differ. It can be a small difference can be or a big one. Hence Russians use different designation if something is meant for export. Common ******* knowledge at this point i would think. Once again you haven’t got a clue.

More nonsense. Ever though for example that Onyx and Yakhont differ in engines. And Onyx could possible have a higher top speed ?

not to mention there are no export version of Kh-20, Kh-15 , Kh-22 ,P-700 GRANIT , P-500 Bazalt

No ****. One of the reasons why a lot of those missiles have errors about them.

this is bull **** , no reason for them to limit info to foreign authors ,while provide info to domestic authors , if classified was actually a concern then they wouldnt release info to domestic author either

Seeing as they don’t allow foreigners to dig through archives of wwII stuff as freally anymore as they used to. and they weren’t all that whilling to back in the 90’s. You really thing they’d allow foreigners about they’re missiles especially likes of granit. lol

Hell, there antsy even about small arms.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATpeX3XBuuw

you said their diagram of Moskit is a Yasper while i pointed out that it obviously a Moskit ,i don’t know what you arguing about

Did not say that their diagram of Moskit is of Yasper. Go reread my posts. And no, you really don’t know what you’re arguing about. Glad you finally admit that.

it classified so how would you know the air launched moskit isnot lighter ?

You yourself said air launched version of a Moskit would be lighter. I assumed fine lets say same weight reduction as between BrahMos air launched and ship launched versions. 500 kg. That would still make the a supposed air launched Moskit a ton heavier compared to an air launched Brahmos.

sure , so according to you , the Russian just hook a moskit on Su-27 because they think it look cool
i and i thought you said no pylon on su-27 can hold a Moskit

I already explained you why. It was a place holder for another missile. Try to keep up. And no pylon on the a su-27 would hold a Moskit while airborne.

But hey try to find me this airborne Kh-41 airborne. And not outside of MAKS on the ground used one time as placeholders. Or better yet ask Berkut if a Su-27 can carry a Moskit. He needs a good laugh.

wow what a smart way to end an argument that you obviously lost

One can hardly lose an argument to a wall. One just can simply walk away because you’re talking to a ******* wall in the end. And I have wasted enough time on you.

Look it up even people comments on that site say there was a typo

What typo are you referring here ? Seriously what are you on about ? The ranges for Kalibr ? That’s a direct quote from an Admiral.

may be because English is the most common language thus more knowledgeable author written their book in English so they can earn more money

Are you trolling or are you really this ******* dumb. Well i know you’re ******* bumd The whole thread is an example of this. But jesus. Because author is writing in english he has absolute authority on a subject at hand ? This doesn’t make any sense don’t you understand that ?

Russian authors have acess to all the info via the OKB unless the missiles are still classified like the Granit. English authors have third rate info and most of the time outdated at that and hence are usually erroneous.

cant see the different between their picture and the real thing

Again what does the pic have to do with the fact they are refering to Yasper (which is a name for sub launched export version of Onyx) as a Moskit.

Moskit is about same weight as Brahmos so i cant see why su-27 cant carry it

4 tons is about 8818 lbs , pretty sure su-27 can deal with that
again how would you know there no air launched version ?

1 ton difference isn’t about the “same” It’s a 1 ******* ton difference.

And how do I know. Because it was a place holder for a different missile. And further more the most important part. It’s a common sense that there is no ******* pylon on a Su-27 that could hold a ******* 4 ton missile. Hell they had trouble with a 2.5 ton BrahMos on the Su-30MKI’s.

Edit

Target rejection being the generic answer. The US had some fascinating results with TASM test shots and the P-35 shaped hole imaged earlier confirms. The imaging seeker then ensures that, should an erroneous target blunder into seeker FoV on activation, it will be rejected and, presumably, re-attack can be attempted until the missile flight time is exhausted. Either way the ability of the missile to be RoE-friendly after release is a great enabler for sorties resulting in weapon release.

I missed this. It’s a nice feature. Still this doesn’t solve the need for mid-course guidence for missiles beyond 400 km range.(at least i don’t see how) I also expect perseus ladar will be used similar. (at least the P-1000LK upgrade that never came to be into service was supposed to be used such way according to speculation on russian forums )

Good post as always Andrex.

India has ridden on the back of Russian AShM development. China and Russia have both recently developed subsonics as well as supersonics.

You are right. Mind you in regard to Kh-35. It was really developed as a el cheapo export alternative. It was never meant to serve with in RuN. and generally is shunned.

You know enough to know that you are mixing two different factors here Indigo. You note Perseus but miss the point that Persus deploys terminal effectors to achieve saturation. If supersonic is the absolute answer to the ship local defence envelope why is saturation a feature here?.

Oh, i’m not saying speed is the obsolute answer or you wouldn’t need saturation..

The answer, as you well know, is that the supersonic element is useful to reduce the cycle time in the track-to-hit phase. A subsonic, fired from extended range, can allow enough time for the target plot to change by the time the missile reaches terminal phase…with various potential RoE impacts. A supersonic reduces that possibility so it can be simpler to deploy.

Yes and for terminal phase also.

Of course the subsonic carrying an IIR/MMW seeker with full TR eliminates the issue as well…so speed isnt the only solution.

I don’t see how it eliminates it.

I can certainly see that it allows subsonic AShM to be fired at out to longer practical ranges than previously before. The longest range subsonic missile. The Russian domestic kalibr that go out to beyond 300 km have mid course correction to do so.

However I don’t know if it is or not the case for LRASM and the new Tomahawk upgrade. so you might well be right.

And regarding to supersonic AShM. I know based from Bazalt without mid course correction it is limited to 350 km. According to Aleksandr Shirokorad Flamming sword of the Russian fleet.

they are every where on internet , and unless you are designed the missiles then you cannot say most western sources on russian AShM are erroneous one way or the other without evident

And what ? You mean the same sources have Onxy same range as it’s export version. Or Kalibr same as their export Club veriants ?

Nevermind that not to be true:

Here’s a source for onyx having a range

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clWZCNaZpeE

At low altitude range no less then 340 Km. From the horses mouth.

http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20140319/1000160934.html

500 km for both Onyx and Kalibr sub launched.

And another for Kalibre

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/255530.html

375 km for antiship(final stage supersonic veriant obviosly) and 2600 km for land attack variant.

Books such as “The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998” aren’t any better

Which i’ve read not long ago With high amusement..

Take for example their Moskit section. (And you can read for free just search google books section.) Has Moskit designated as P-80 Zubr. Nevermind that there is no such AShM ever in such designation. And all Moskit and there are four of them. Are under designation as P-100, P-105 and the P-270. Or the fact that they have labaled Yashma(Yasper) as a Moskit missile. Never mind the fact that Yashma(Yasper) is the a export version of sub launched Onyx(Yakhont).

Also mention Moskit having a Tell back data link. Moskit doesn’t comminicate with launch platform after start nor do they (missiles) themselves communicate with eachother either. Also they list a air launched Moskit. There isn’t one. It was just a placeholder next to a Sukhoi 27 for 3M-51 Alfa aka ASM-MMS which at the time was in competition with npo novator 3M54 Alfa and 3M14 Biryuza missiles. (ASM-MS and AFM-L) The fact the book couldn’t get that straight nevermind the auther though a 4 ton moskit could be lifted by a Su-27. Says volums of so called wester sources.

Fact is no book of mine in russian have anything on P-700. The missile is still classified. And I doubt western sources which get lot wrong know better.

Easy — the proposed contract for removal of the steam turbine plant components from “Krasnoyarsk” includes this paragraph:

“Work under the agreement is being performed to support the State Defense Order under State Contract No. Z/1/1/0169/GK-12-DGOZ on the basis of: Technical Requirement NYaDI.F.301.752 TZ.”

State Contract No. Z/1/1/0169/GK-12-DGOZ is the contract signed by the Russian State and United Shipbuilding Corporation for the construction of Dolgorukiy SSBNs hulls 5-8.

Original sources please.

This does not sound like they are going to be using the entire steam turbine. Unlike what you claimed. Does it …? But components off. But also could mean they are going to recycle the steam turbine plant and use the materials to build new one.

Moving on.

Finally.