PM Gordon Brown was asked directly about the CVF’s today at PM’s question time and the delay in issuing the build contracts. He said that the UK Government fully intended to build the two ships and that the contracts will be issued shortly.

I would like them to go back to 35 main surface combatants and commit to 10 SSN’s long term plus the 4 SSBN’s. Sadly the realist in me see’s this as very unlikely for now.

There are a few clouds on the long horizon that suggest resource nationalism will be a bigger threat than Russia although they may be part of the same problem. If anyone read the head of Shells’ letter to his staff this week that found its way to the newspapers you will see that he sees this as a real scenario in 10 years. Other big hitters are starting to say the same even if they are not yet able to say it in public. Sadly possible future resource wars must now be considered in the mix and the RN / UK Government must factor this into their planning scenarios for all three services. To my mind making the navy smaller now would be a seriously dumb thing to do until the way forward is a little clearer.

Am I one of the few strange people who enjoy turbulance ?

Best ever was a two hour section of a flight to Texas from London about 5 years ago. Violent shaking, some passengers occasionally involuntarily screaming, things falling out of supposedly closed overhead lockers and the captain or co-pilot demanding that people stay in their seats and do not attempt to go to the loo no matter how desperate. Funnily the noise is the thing I remember the most, kind of like lots of those bangs you get when the undercarriage hits the runway. It was quite exciting and there were no injuries or anything that bad thankfully. I asked one of the cabin crew how it rated and she said she had been in worse but it was the kind of stuff they see about once every couple of years ………

Didn’t I read someone speculating in the papers or on another website that the Prime ministers convoy was somewhere nearby and that it would have a significant EMR footprint at some frequencies for protection against IED’s etc ? Again that sounds like another very left field and unlikely theory 😮 :rolleyes:

I doubt any of us on here are qualified to comment with any authority as its all very new

Interesting debate. One of the drawbacks with that Pentmaran is its overall size. 180 x 34 m means that is pretty big. Nice idea though. If they are going to try something radical I would rather it appeared at C3 where the risks are lower.

In terms of C1 & C2 as long as we have a dedicated land attack derivative then I will be happy. eg TLAM or Naval Scalp, 155mm with GPS shells, plus smaller calibre guns, and maybe an intermediate missile (Has anyone ever thought of marinising GMLRS ?) It also needs a large hanger so that a couple of Apaches can be carried plus a utility.

The reason for a land attack version is simple. We now have possibly the second best amphib capability in the world. However, when you look to the history of amphibious operations from WW2 onwards two things stand out.

1/ Never assume that you will always have air support for ground attack, as it has an unfortunate habit of disappearing or not being available just when you want it most.

2/ You can never have enough accurate Naval gunnery support.

You usually only get one chance to land and so you have to have more than just air support available in literal ops.

This is going to be an interesting debate

Turbinia, To a degree I agree with both you and the Sealord, but China is now spreading its wings much wider in order to secure resources. For example it now has or will shortly have Oil supply contracts on every major continent and with some folks whom NATO might not regard as best friends. Along with these oil deals they usually sign a basing agreement for their Navy to ensure that their energy supplies have some security at point of origin. I saw a report to the US governement earlier in the year that is in the public domain that made exactly this point. (Sorry I searched for the report but can’t find it). Some say We are apparently moving to a period of resource nationalism for a whole host of reasons and where this will end no-one knows. Now is not a good time to reduce military spending further.

Getting involved in all these small wars does bring the advantage of ‘currency’ for the UK forces. Some major countries haven’t deployed seriously for years and in some cases decades and their lack of preparation could well catch them out in the future if called upon. The UK enjoys a good reputation in this respect because its forces are flexible, current, well practiced and learn from their deployments. They can also punch above their weight which is a deterent to others as you know.