Well. lets see if that one is the optimiced supercruiser regime, or just the top speed at supercruiser…

Top speed is 1600+mph.:cool:

Oh God, same is applied to the f16/18, both have values of M2/1.8+, specifically for the f-16 the speed was M2.05, but nobody was claiming M2.2,2.3…is just recently that the M1.5+ means M1.7…don’t know who did start with that crap

Uh, I think that would be the folks that have flown the plane at M1.7+.:cool:

That stand for M1.51,1.52,1.53,1.5+

Not for 1.6,1.7…1.9

M1.6, M1.7…M1.9 are all M1.5+ are they not? The USAF/LM use M1.5 as the threshold for where supercruising begins. There have been numerous sources showing the Raptor supercruising at M1.7+, and maybe has high as M1.9. You’re starting to sound like LordAssap and his assertions about the F-35/M1.6 limit, until the inconvenient truth of the M1.8 figure coming out(and not even listed as the max).

The + after a number is very vague. It’s not limited to mean just a little bit more than the figure it follows(especially when the true figures are not available for public consumption due to security classifications).

Are you kidding? a “LPI” keeping contact within the whole flight of a passive missile?

And is not true that the F-22 has nice magical electronics too?

And in general the amraam missiles are for self defence, is not an interceptor, the plane never was meant to, it mission is not to destroy targets with pasive amraams but to give support against SAMs, but of course, since it downed a 22 on a exercise, the plane is now a superfortress

The plane is an 18F with a huge load of ECM, is not an ELINT, super electronic spy..God

How do you suppose a jamming plane knows what to jam, what freqs to jam, etc….? That’s because it has significant amounts of wide band ESM detection/jamming equipment.

Even with the awful low probability that pasive Amraams were used on a exercise, such thing show that the 22 LPI radar is not so LPI…

Again, WE DON”T KNOW THE DETAILS! The EA-18G has very sophisticated electronics, inluding an AESA radar, and more jamming/ESM equipment than any other aircraft in its class. We don’t know how it detected the F-22(WVR/BVR), we don’t know what means the AMRAAM homed in, etc…
Please stop trying to draw conclusions without the necessary info to do so.

Where is the “released” data?, the long claimed M1.7?, in which is not specific if is a intantaneus speed or dive “we did reach M17” at SC does not mean “we did a SC of M1.7”, the marble, gulf ball RCS joke is old..

Another rising performance…first it was M1.6, then it is m1.7, we are not that far for the M1.9, actually already there are some “rumors”…

Still in official data and internal documents the M1.5 persist

The info has always been M1.5+.

The U.S. Air Force is taking the F-22 Raptor to the Paris Air Show for the first time this summer, according to Larry Lawson, executive vice president and general manager of the F-22 program.

The trip to Paris has been long delayed. A furor that surrounded the detailed customs inspection and electronic surveillance of the F-117 the only time it went to France has apparently subsided.

The new U.S. administration has no grudge against France for not participating in the invasion of Iraq. Even recent concerns about the French air force’s electronic surveillance of the Indian Air Force’s Su-30 MKI during a 2008 Red Flag exercise at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev., has died down (Aerospace DAILY, Aug. 25). Moreover, the potential for additional U.S. sales and, possibly, foreign sales has removed any remaining barriers.

To pique consumer interest, Lockheed Martin has revealed better than expected performance for the stealth fighter.

The F-22s overperformance includes a radar cross section that is “better” than was contracted for, the company says. That classified requirement has been calculated at a -40 dBsm, about the size of a steel marble. By contrast, the F-35 is thought to be a -30 dBsm, the size of a golf ball. Supercruise is at Mach 1.78 rather than Mach 1.5. And acceleration – although company officials would not say from what speed or at what altitude – is 3.05 seconds quicker than the requirement of 54 seconds.

In nonafterburning military power the Raptor can operate at just more than 50,000 feet. However, it is known that the F-22 opened its aerial battles at about 65,000 feet during its first joint exercise in Alaska, apparently using afterburner.

There also is a mysterious admission that the range of the Raptor’s Northrop-Grumman/Raytheon active electronically-scanned array (AESA) radar is 5 percent greater than expected. That means a cushion of an additional 5-6 miles of detection range against enemy aircraft and missiles.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/12/22/State/New_warplane_earns_ra.shtml

Then there is the capability that lets the Raptor fly at supersonic speed without using fuel-guzzling afterburners that other fighters require.

“That saves us a lot of gas and opens up a whole host of things when you start talking about dropping bombs,” Krumm said. “You can imagine if you are 60,000 feet doing mach 1.9 (about 1,400 mph) … the swath of hell you can produce going through a country saying, “I’ll take that target, and that target.’ “

I really can’t see how is the f22 stealthier than the F-35, you will claim about the same crap of the “rounded stuff”, but is funny that, for the B-2 which is a very rounded design, such feature is part of it “stealth concept”….

The F35 engine is better masked -at least that is a real LO feature-, and for face hemisphere shaping is about the same or even better than the raptor, heck..even the cockpit glass is somewhat faceted, while the 22 is pretty conventional.., the only shape i wound consider a difference with the 22 is the intake “cones”, but then they are using the “blended gaussian stealth” *crap* , no?…….

So you can eyeball the RCS of an aircraft- that’s very impressive.:rolleyes:

Chuck was actually right, i havn’t define my take on this, yet, so i’m not entirely serious. it’s more a philosophical question. . But i do ponder if i should pick the best, the worst, or the overage RCS to define “stealth” value on any given platform.
That also include “stealth” against various wavelengths. i.e will uber-stealth vs X-band but not other frequencies suffice to qualify for “VLO” or at least “LO” ?

The definition will most likely change over time, at least by some companies, just like “uber-cruise” did. But unlike uber-cruise, there is no specific level defined from start.
I also believe all aspect “stealth” is by far more important for a fighter then a BAI/strike aircraft, as it implies aggressive maneuvers.

Secondly, if we speak about strikers, and F-35 specifically, i believe that aircraft comes to its own when it is flying with emissions OFF in a sneak attack vs something between Russia and goat-herders.

Well both the F-22 and F-35 are designed to have low RCS/IR signatures from all aspects and against a wide frequency band, with the F-22 being the superior of the 2. I doubt VLO will be redefined, but there may be new terms to describe even higher levels of all aspect/multi-spectral stealth.

Most of it equipment is ECM stuff, that will not help the AIM120 to reach the target

But then , again, we are talking about an incident that popped out of nowhere….

It has an awful lot of ESM equipment too.