F-22 is 8 years already, maintenance can only go south from this point.

Actually the F-22 reached IOC in Dec 2005, which if my arithmetic is correct, is 3yrs and 2 months ago.:cool:

What’s stopping the other guys receiver from reacting to the photons, at half the distance, since your photons have to travel all the way back and scatter while doing it.
After your photons has bounced they also have given away some energy to the other guys airframe.

LPI emissions don’t look like radar emissions to RWR. That’s the whole point. It’s not just a matter of turning the power down. They’re designed to look like background RF noise.

You forgot to mention that adding stealth reduces your deployable assets by ~70%

How many non-stealthy assets will survive against S-300/400/etc…?
Survivability can’t be dismissed in the equation either.

You can’t afford stand off jammers, you just blew your budget on LO.:D.

EA-6B, EA-18G, EC-130, etc….along with unmanned assets in the coming years.

let me explain –

Bill’s assertion that Stealth has drawbacks is valid, but you have to view the big picture to see those drawbacks.

just one dimension of the arguement:-
First you have limited assets due for example the f-22’s purchase price, then you have the F-22 maintenance requirements, only 60% availability, then you have the f-22’s production balls up when LRIP are started before testing is complete due to cost blowouts and that’s around 60 Raptors that are not combat coded..

So that works out as the notional 183 Raptors minus 60 non combat coded aircraft = 123 of which 60% are available leaving only 73 to play with.
and that’s not during ops tempo so expect that 60% to drop markedly.

I suspect on the first day of war, there’d be a higher than 60 percent availability, if it were of our time and choosing. That number isn’t taking into account the likely purchase of 60 more Raptors, and the numerous F-35s that not only the US military will have, but those of our allies.

So how many do you think you could spare to penetrate defences?? consider you will be mounting counter air and all the defensive type trimmings. you could literally count them on one hand.

Now compare that to what you’d get if you’d invested your money in Typhoons. conservatively ~350 of them plus a couple of hundred cruise missiles, so no need to overfly sam sites and over 300 of them available too.

What would provide the biggest punch on the first day?, and what is the result after a few days of ops tempo.

Bills piece is asking you to consider what trade offs you want to make…;)

cheers

Again- there’ll also be F-35s in that mix, EA-18Gs, stand off weapons, cruise missiles, along with hundreds of Super Hornets, and F-15Es. Remember, you don’t have to clear every every target to allow other assets to get through, as long as certain corridors have been sanitized. You can then focus your efforts on the other targets as you expand the campaign.

Sure sure, but do you think it was a FLIR they used to find these bombs, or some other sensor? How does the FLIR tell you the differance between a bomb and, say a stone, if they both have the same temperature (which they should)?

The resolution on the FLIR is pretty high. Man made objects look different than rocks(usually). Additionally, if any digging has been done, the disturbed area will show up too.

even on this grainy footage, you can see folks that are up to no good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2y13woLylk

and if your not transparent enough your still visible

add jamming, and your stealth is more effective period.

and standoff jamming removes the element of surprise.. and HOJ is just what a towed decoy loves..

Once things start exploding, your enemy is going to know something’s going on. Once this confusion sets in, that’s when jammers could be a force multiplier for the VLO aircraft.

I think you are forgetting that F-22 too, are emitting with its radar, that a weapon with HOJ can home in on.
A radar can be detected 4 times the distance it can detect anything itself,
LPI perhaps only twice as far as it can detect anything.

A prerequisite for stealth to work is an AWAC at hand, something that may not be available with S-400 and Kh-31 AWAC-killer missiles multiplying like rabbits.
Otherwise it is just screaming out its presence like a flash-light at night, like any other fighter.

The F-22 isn’t necessarily emitting. It can use its ALR-94 and fly passively, with periodic uses of its radar. It can also use radar imagery from other platforms. As for detecting LPI twice as far away as it can detect, I think you misunderstand the whole concept. LPI isn’t just using lower power settings. It’s using passive techniques so that RWR/ESM systems don’t recognize it(or aren’t likely to recognize it). This doesn’t mean that it’s not detectable, but certainly not at the ranges you’re talking about.

Any idéa of what this actually means? If I understood the article right they havent ever caught the Talibs “in the act” (while planting the bombs). But if you dont see the guys digging, how can you “confirm” any IEDs? I doubt a coupple of boobytrapped arty shells would be hoter than the surrounding desert, so FLIR etc shouldnt be of mouch use here. Must have been some other sensor, but what? :confused: A sniffing bloodhound tied to a long rope under the helo perhaps? 😉

Helpe me out here, gents!

The IED doesn’t need to be hotter. It may very well be cooler. It’s the temperature difference the FLIR is looking at, not just hot spots.

F-22 and F-35 for starters, both had a requirement of being less maintenance intensive then previous generations.
Can you tell me what page or site that made some believe 1 F-35=7 EF ?
As in another study made by the RAF, EF will be 80% as effective as F-22 to counter a “threat aircraft in the not-too-distant future”
And USAF claim F-22 is vastly better air superiority then F-35 against a “threat aircraft in the not-too-distant future”
So: it doesn’t make sense that EF is 14% as effective as F-35 but 80% as effective as F-22.

Another hint that something is wrong with the picture is that USAF or L.M (can’t remember which)
claim F-22 score 30:1
F-16 1:1
and F-35 3:1
I would assume EF totally out-perform F-16 in air superiority.

Did LM make that assertion, or the RAF though?