When you talk about the ‘instability’ of the Typhoon, does it mean that if you’ve got a failure on both engines, the plane can not glide to the ground ?

As long as the FCS is still functioning, the plane should retain controllability(assuming you have sufficient airspeed).

It does not say that long range engagement are for AWACS and where u combine Supreme flight performance with superagility in one line?. For Typhoon TVC is case of sour grapes.

Is that link for exports, or a RuAF? According to that article- Range 1580km at M.7, Max Range 3600km, Service Ceiling 18,000m. Or is that the figures from 2007, and everything has improved by 2-4x by now?

What it doesn’t say is that the TVC is for supersonic maneuvers, or that the 700kg AAMs were for use against Fighters.

It is alot harder to achieve this with heavy fighter that can carry combine 20 tons of internal and external loads. compare F-22 with F-16.

Sukhoi clearly knows what supersonic agility and they are going to use TVC for BVR avoidance. Haven u seen the Su-35 video where it avioids EF missiles.
EF currently is not designed for 600 to 700 kg AAM missile but Su-35 is along with long range strike weopons. It is in different league.

And what FIGHTER is carrying 20 tons of payload(I hope you’re including fuel in that figure)?

The figures are not correct as these are for bomber-sized targets. Here the official figures:

180+ km against bomber sized target, head on engagement
130 km against bomber sized target, tailchase engagement
120 km against fighter sized target, head on engagement
75-90 km against fighter sized target, tailchase engagement

These are range figures for targets at equal altitude.. Against ground clutter, the Foxhunter losses a great deal of its capabilities, much more than current slotted types. But still, raw range figures provide little tactical advantage if your weapons do not equally outrange the ones of your opponent.

To sum it up – under optimum conditions (equal attitude, 1 vs 1 engagement) both Zhuk-M and Foxhunter are roughly on par. In less than optimum conditions Zhuk-M provides much better look-down shoot-down capability and is MUCH more flexible and versatile (number of targets, TWS modes, synthetic apperture modes, ground mapping, A-G modes etc. etc.)

The figures I’ve seen are 185km against fighters, 260km against bombers, apparently with the ability to track up to 40 targets. This is for the Stage 2G model AI 24. The current model is the Stage 3(or better), which should be even more capable.

You are making it yourself very easy, wrightwing. You say a claim, provide no proofs or quotes and when someone express doubts, you immediately jump in and ask him to prove you wrong with some hard numbers you yourself obviously don’t have.. :rolleyes:

Let us get back to your original message and ask for few figures:

– you mention that Tornado’s radar is larger, what’s the size of its antenna in diameter? What are the antenna sizes for contemporary Fulcrum radars?
– you mention that Tornado radar is more powerful, what is its peak output power and how does it compare to Fulcrum’s counterparts?
– what version of the radar are we talking about, at all? There were several upgrade stages and the first versions of the radar were actually inferior even to old American radars installed in RAF F-4Ks. For example, Non Cooperative Target Recognition, a feature without which a modern interceptor radar is almost useless was installed in the F.3 as late as 1996, years after Cold War has ended.
– Tornado radar uses a FMICW concept which is a bit older than current pulse-Doppler radars use. FMICW radar can separately evaluate targets at different ranges using different cells but at the same time sums up the returns from all cells into one single return. Compared to today’s radars, this approach greatly increases ground clutter and thus reduces look-down range. Can you please provide a comparison for look-up and look-down ranges for ADV and MiG-29A/S/SMT against various targets?

If you have cleared these questions out, then you are at least a bit credited to judge which radar is ‘better’ (I hate that word) than the other one. But I’d be very careful judging the radars of different generations solely based on peak output and antenna diameter.

I personally believe, that Tornado’s radar has zero chance in flexibility or situational awareness compared to Zhuk-M from MiG-29SMT but I will gladly see your figures first. Thanks. :rolleyes:

I’m speaking of current F3 radars vs. current Fulcrums. The numbers I’ve seen are F3- 185+km against fighter size targets Zhuk-M-120+km against fighter size targets. If these figures are incorrect, please feel free to enlighten me.

Got some figures? Why do you see blank range figure as the most important aspect of a radar? I’d say that the range alone does not mean much… Even less with AWACS support..

Not specific numbers, but the F3 has a larger antenna and more output than any Fulcrums, that are CURRENTLY in service. It’s in the same league as F-15Cs and F-14Ds, which also have/had more powerful radars than Fulcrums.

It is passive guidance. So there must be reason for increasing range to 200km. Missile can hit tagest as low as 20m. The whole point is not all version of R-27 were sold during soviet times and there is constant improvements such as R-27AE etc. EF certainly dont have radar detection ranges, interception capability advantage over MIGs. Mig can guide two antiship missiles on same target. There is extended range SEAD capability.

You think that a Fulcrum has a longer detection range than a Typhoon? Against what size target? The R27 is still going to need datalink updates assuming it’s kinematic range is 200km. The Mig’s ESM will detect the emissions, and give passive guidance, but the missile itself won’t be autonomous for 200km. The current AMRAAM(C7), and the Meteor are plenty to handle the Migs in A2A. I’m not sure how anti-ship missiles are relevant in A2A.

Hope you are feeling good, after taking that off your chest.

But dear, did it occurred to you these are not fully developed yet??

But still, SU-35 is being reported for Venezuela, if you are not updated!!

As long as it’s taking for them to get developed, how long do you supposed it’ll take the PAK FA to reach IOC? What sort of time frame is the Venezuela SU-35 order looking like?