The 1200 nm figure is given as max range on internal fuel not as combat radius. :rolleyes:
I wasn’t referring to the F-35’s range.
Sukhoi clearly differentiate between 4, 4+, 4++ and 5th generation. These are not meaningless numbers. MIG-31/F-22 surely has legs to disengage from F-35. It is the speed and altitude that matters in Air to air fight along with big radar not no one can jam. AWACS does not mattr to MIG-31 and it doesnot matter in individual aircraft qualities.
The MIG-31 can’t outrun a Mach 4+ missile, and won’t know it needs to run, if it can’t see the F-35.
Su-34 is claimed that is completely immune from air defences. Not no other aircraft can claim.
Any aircraft can claim that, if the only evidence needed to back it up is a claim.
Oh wait a minute and then isn’t a 4++ class fighter not a 5- class fighter !?? And is a 4++ automaticly better than a 4+ … ?
Come on … These classifications are all useless :p untill You don’t know what available too (AWACS, EW, network … ) and not to forget the pilot and tactics … and the F-35 has surely has the “ability to fight MIG-31/F-22” (that’s a very good joke, not even Lockheed Martin would tell !) :dev2:I don’t say it is less an achivement in comparison to other aircarft from Russia and abroad, but does this directly mean they aren’t allowed to be delayed ?
And Yes I don’t know anything of the T-50 … but I’m surely YOU know everything about the PAK-FA … and as long it isn’t built, test-flown, certified and read for combat everything else is a fan-boy’s wet-dream.… and reagarding the Su-34 – following Your own statement: YES, it’s the only fighter-bomber in the world that has been “4 times upgraded completely take into light the changing requirements” (WHY ?? .. only because of changing requirements but also because of reliablity and performance issues ?!!), … and wait a minute: it’s only flying in limited numbers since years – and most likely in years to come. 😉
That the USA or Europe don’t have a counterpart in the same class doesn’t mean anything … at least the US has some bombers and fighter-bombers that areoperational since years in the role Your Su-34 still has to proove.
Typical advertisments by the manufacture … nothing proven so far !!
Or am I wrong ???
If You would thrust all JSF-marketing brochures in the same manner one could think the only thing missing is a warp-drive !:DDeino
Sukhoi and the head of the RuAF would never put out inaccurate or exaggerated information. Only corrupt Capitalists would do such a thing.:D
From OKB Sukhoi: Su-27
range at cruise-speed is 4000 km or 2160 nm. Internal fuel is 9400 kg or 20700 lb. That does translate into 2,35 kg per km. Adding AAMs half that distant your down by 10 % in range or at 2,61 kg per km.
The data of a F-35A sofar are:
range at cruise-speed is 2225 km or 1200 nm. Internal fuel is 8382 kg or 18480 lb. That does translate into 3,77 kg per km. Adding AAMs internal will not affect that value.
For practical purposes we do compare the smaller F-35A with Su-27 loaded half the way for a typical mission and do realize, that the stealth F-35A does consume over 40% more fuel for a same distance.
So much about the cold facts. If you have better data at hand you are free to reveal that.
Going to a Rafale, which is similar in size. With 8 AAMs and 3 ETs = 11500 kg fuel in total, it can go over 3700 km in total.
That does give 3,11 kg of fuel per km, when the F-35A is still over 20 % worth compared to that draggy Rafale.When in peace-time there is the need to carry the ET or ETs in need for a peace-time mission, non will drop that of cause. But flying at subsonic speeds that ETs will rise fuel consumption by some percent only.
The consumption values of the F-35A do remember me about the Su-24 with Tj engines. 😮
Comparing Ferry ranges w/ ETs vs. combat radius doesn’t tell the whole story though. What’s the combat radius of a Flanker with a 5000+lb external load?
Nobody forces you to do so. But incidents like Attack on Gliwitz or the mentioned Gulf of Tonkin were conspiracies – whether you decide to accept that or live in denial, that is up to you..
I’m not saying that throughout history, there haven’t been examples of conspiracies. I just don’t believe that the default answer to every problem is that a conspiracy must have been the cause.
Whilst not disagreeing with your comments; for balances sake i feel compelled to point out that the above is exactly what the US has been doing for decades, the claims re the F15 when first deployed (when it was falling out of the sky ((mild exaggeration there)) due to it’s dodgy engines) are a case in point. The manufacturer and lead customer of any product that is vastly expensive have a massive vested interest in claiming that it is the dogs gonads, be it an airplane or washing machine!
The difference is the combination of real world experience and simulations, to add greater realism in the simulations. We’ve seen how F-15/16s perform against other aircraft. We’ve seen how F-22s perform against F-15/16s/etc…
We’ve seen how weapons perform in tests. A lot more accurate conclusions can be drawn, when the base of knowledge is higher. No RuAF plane has ever flown against the F-22 in an exercise(or an F-15/16 for that matter). No Russian IADS system has ever been tested against an F-22(or B-2, or F-35,etc..), so there’s much more speculation in their simulations.
I am not giving any explanations here.. I am answering your question:
Q: Exactly how has anyone in the Bush “Regime” benefitted from the collapse of the WTC?
A: Raised popularity from 50 to 90%…The fact is that Bush’s clique greatly benefited from the collapse.. Whatever conspiracy you want to resolve from that, that’s your problem..
That’s precisely my point- I’m not buying into conspiracies.
Raised popularity from 50 to 90%… Most politicians would kill for a result like that.
They greatly overestimated the capabilities of their military in assymetric warfare. Iraq should have never ended the way it did(n’t).
So to get higher approval ratings for Bush, a large number of people conspired to commit treason? I’m not buying any tin foil hat explanations.
Blunders have been made, but they’ve been political miscalculations. The military has performed very well by any metric.
You could be right here. Who would want to trade with American girls? 😉 You’d need transportation trucks twice that size.. 😎
Hmm, if you already mention that, I cannot think about last time I have actually seen a consumer product made in the USA. Except weapons, bad financial services and the few McDonalds/KFC franchises there is also pretty little to be found here..
edit: ah, yes, Windows, forgot about that.
There are a lot of American made products, but they’re generally tailored to high end markets due to the added cost of manufacture. It’s simply not cost effective to build toasters, CD players, etc…in the USA any longer, due to what consumers are willing to spend.
Expensive oil and slow economy has not hurt people in the higher ranks. Infact many republican politicians (including Bush and Cheney) have their stakes in oil business and expensive oil is greatly increasing their profits making them even more richer. Now slow economy is something people in Washington and at wall street did’nt expect. It is a result of i) decades old bad habits of spending beoynd ones means, ii)invasions and their unexpected outcomes, iii)habit of paying less taxes, iv)cheap chinese/indian imports etc.
Expensive oil doesn’t help, as that just means that oil companies have to pay more per barrel. Their profits are based upon volume sold, as they’re only making about $.08 to .10/gallon profit.
Ores, lumber, girls.
That is true. They do have the best Potassium:D, and if one is into human trade, they’re your one shop stop.:eek:
Not design capabilities of chip only manufacturing. that require contionous investment which Soviets lacked but not Russia and fabs of East Asia are now open.
Name one Russian industry aside from oil/gas/weapons that is responsible for a huge cash flow.
This is called a global market. Isn’t this something you should love and praise?
That’s what’s known as sarcasm, trying to illustrate a ridiculous statement made by another poster.:p
There is simply no proof of Afghans (or Talian govt) involvement period. Bush regime with all kinds of recources at her disposal could’nt proove it, how would you? Every now and then illegally captured so called Al-Qaida terrorists are being released quietly from infamous G-Bay just because there is no proof of their involvement. And again Flex is right, Saddam was hanged as a result of a very murky trial under the directions of occupation forces not by an independant legitimate court. Who brought down the WTC? actually question should be, who benifitted most from WTC collapse? the so called terrorists aka muslims or the owners of WTC and people in Bush regime who were already preparing to attack Afghanistan and Iraq and looking for any kind of excuses. If incidents like Gulf of Tonkin http://www.nsa.gov/vietnam/ can be fabricated to impose war on Vietnam why similar incidents cant be fabricated to justify a pre-planned invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq.
Exactly how has anyone in the Bush “Regime” benefitted from the collapse of the WTC? Unless they wanted expensive oil and a slow economy, it just doesn’t make any sense.
Just because u havent seen Russian AWACS/Fighter combination it does not mean that they dont do exercises. Check http://www.militarynews.ru. they do every couple of months large scale exercises for past 10 years. Much more than NATO planes. and what kind of combat NATO planes have been proven? Russian will provide them way different combat enviornment. Russians are building there own fabs and importing the most advanced chips from Southkorea/taiwan. those days of soviet lack manufacturing capaicty are gone for ever. These countries businesses are running to Russia to escape credit crunch of West.
Why is it that if Russia is so superior to everyone else, that they’re using Western computers, rather than the latest Russian Super Computers, to design their latest weapon systems? I’m sure their computers would enjoy the same superiority as their aircraft, missiles, etc…
:rolleyes: