wrightwingWhat do you suppose the likelihood is, that the remedy for those early issues isn’t being (hasn’t been)retrofitted to bad lots?
wrightwingWhat? Buy the JASSM when we already have stocks of something better? Note that after hundreds of test firings (what have they done to development costs?), JASSM has still not achieved the reliability & accuracy demonstrated by Storm Shadow in the 2003 Iraq war. :diablo: It would make more sense for the USA to buy Storm Shadow than for us to buy JASSM.
You may want to recheck your facts on how well JASSM performs. The bugs it had, have been fixed, and….it has a longer range than Storm Shadow.
wrightwingIt’s a KPP.
wrightwing1. No.
2. A few years. Numbers would have to build up gradually.
3. ?
4. AIM-120 & some dumb bombs certainly. Not sure what else.We have Paveway II, III & IV, EPW II & III, Maverick (unless they’ve been retired) & CRV-7 rockets some or all of which might be usable immediately or almost immediately.
Meteor, Asraam, Storm Shadow & Brimstone would take time & money to integrate.
Well considering that the Super Hornet already carries the JSOW, JASSM, JDAM, SDB, Paveway, SLAM-ER, Maverick, AIM-9X, AIM-120C/D, Harpoon, HARM/AARGM, etc…, money could be saved on duplication of weapons.
wrightwingSome things like what, for example? Redesign the inlet channels?
Modify the wing airfoil? Strip down a ton of weight? Increase the engine thrust by 20%? Or reduce frontal RCS?Structural modifications are always the most complicated ones to accomplish and I don’t think that F-35 can afford a structural redesign like that at this stage of project.
Of course, unless you believe that current F-35 has some major flaw and by purely removing it the max speed is going to be magically incrased by some 400-500 km/h. :confused: I have yet to see that!
I don’t anticipate LM having to do a major redesign, but they are going at a responsible pace, and meeting as many test points as possible at each stage, before opening the envelope. The fact that your timeline doesn’t coincide with theirs is irrelevent.
wrightwingI absolutely agree. If the aircraft has only demonstrated M1.3 so far, what is the claimed M1.6+ figure if not a guesstimate, BTW?
A requirement.
It’s not only about stripping down 700kg of weight from one F-35A and maybe barely squeezing the M1.6 mark once for few seconds to satisfy the public. If even after four years the aircraft has not hit anywhere close to the M1.6 threshold, then to me it is an indication of the design not being capable to ROUTINELY achieve these speeds in the future or/and no one counting with these speeds for OPERATIONAL envelope, anyway.
All 3 models are required to meet the M1.6 standard(in combat configuration, not at 25% fuel, no weapons, and avionics removed).
If you expect that after four years of LM completely ignoring the supersonic region the future series F-35s will be somehow routinely operating at M1.5+, then I think YOU are the one setting yourself up for some major embarassment.
I think LM is opening the envelope slowly, as they don’t want to risk losing an aircraft, just to “see what it’ll do.” There are other priorities that are higher at the moment(maturing the block software, weapons integration, etc…).
wrightwing[QUOTE=Bluewings;1680578]
Any fighter directed by a 3rd party like AWACs or ground low band radar .
AWACS haven’t demonstrated the ability to detect aircraft like the F-22/35 at ranges that would allow ramjet powered missiles to take advantage of their kinematic performance. Ground based low band radars don’t have the resolution needed to prosecute an attack. The fighters would still need to get close enough to precisely locate the F-35, and by this point conventional AAMs would be just fine.
Then , a good RWR will warn the opponent way before to be in F-35 ‘s Amraam ‘s range and could even provide enough infos for a BVR shot . MAWS will also warn the opponent that a missile has been fired .
It works both way Wrightwing .
The first point is a huge assumption with regards to detection(or the AMRAAM’s range for that matter). Assuming the LPI signal was detected, the rate at which the AESA scans(and how briefly the target is illuminated), you’re not going to have a firing solution(especially if the emitter isn’t the shooter). MAWS does warn of incoming missiles, but this is a terminal defense measure.
Radars are not the only mean to detect an aircraft at long range .
They’re still the best way though, as they have longer ranges, faster scan rates, larger fields of view and resolution, and the ability to determine important targeting information(range, AZ/EL, speed, etc..)
Funny that the US aircraft are always flying higher and faster than others but when it ‘s the others who are flying higher and faster , the advantage is negligible 😀
My point wasn’t that it wasn’t an advantage to fly high and fast, but that it was doubtful that the enemy would always be flying higher or faster. All fighters will remain subsonic most of the time, so the assumption that the foe will always have kinematics on their side, is bogus(especially considering that the F-35 will likely enjoy a SA advantage, as well as excellent acceleration). It’s also a huge assumption that F-35s flying A2A won’t be flying considerably higher, than when on A2G missions(i.e. co-altitude with foes).
Chinese AF .
In which Fiscal Year do you expect the Chinese Air Force to have more 5th Gen fighters than the US?
wrightwingLet’s put it this way- they know the thrust, weight, drag, etc…. so I doubt the estimates are going to vary significantly. If anything, they may find some things that need to be modified, to ensure safe flight at speed, but I seriously doubt that achieving M1.6+ is going to be a challenge. This isn’t the first attempt by LM at building fighters. There are a lot less unknowns here, than in how well various electronic systems/sensors/countermeasure work against one another.
wrightwingI think the metric being used, is the number of thing the Super Hornet does well/excels at vs the others. Each of them have niche advantages, but none are nearly as versatile. As for Typhoons being equipped to their potential, where’s the money, and what’s the timeline for the upgrades?
wrightwingWhen designing performance parameters, and meeting requirements, I strongly suspect that guesstimates play little to no role. You can choose to believe that the absolute max capability, is what the current envelope is, but I think you’re setting yourself up for some major disappointments.
wrightwingI would agree as well. The -120D/D+, etc…will be more than enough until the JDRADM/T-3 are in service.
wrightwingSince we ‘re talking about 5th gen and the F-35 is “supposed to be” 5th gen (:p) , I find it bizarre that the European partners did not include the Meteor as part as the requirement . They paid enough to have theirs words .
Probably because the later model AMRAAMS(and follow on weapons), combined with the low RCS were deemed to be perfectly suitable, due to threat capability assessments.
Since we don ‘t have a clue on the real RCS of the F-35 , how the aircraft is gonna cope with Russian or Chinese made interceptors equipped with the R-77M1 ramjet missile which also have the HoJ (Home on Jam) capability ?
HoJ missiles can be jammed but it takes a highly efficient ECM suite to archive the trick , so how good is the F-35’s AN/ASQ-239 (Barracuda) Electronic Warfare system ?
Which fighter is going to detect the F-35 at ranges, where a ramjet powered BVR missile would be handy? You’re asking the wrong question about the defensive suite of the F-35. Fighters like the Typhoon, Rafale, Super Hornet, etc… start off with a much higher RCS, which their ECM systems have to compensate for vs. incoming weapons. The F-35 starts out several orders of magnitude lower RCS, and then adds EA and modern ECM techniques as well, making the job of an incoming missile much tougher. HOJ works best against noise jamming(which of course isn’t the technique that the F-35 will be employing).
The best is always to shoot first as it forces the opponent to react swiftly and sometimes to even give up the fight for a couple of minutes . If the F-35 is on a AtoG mission , as it supposed to be , it will not have the Meteor to even up the fight .
It won’t need the Meteor to even up the fight. It can avoid incoming fighters, or engage them at ranges beyond their ability to detect it(the F-35). In a VLO vs VLO fight, then having extremely long ranges AAMs becomes even less important, as the ranges at which they’ll detect each other will be much closer, than legacy aircraft.
I know that the USMC is planning to use the next-generation jammer (NGJ) , though a conventional pod design but it would impact the aircraft’s radar cross-section . That pod could indeed boost the F-35 ‘s ECM capability but the RCS would suffer .
It will be a stealthy pod, so that it doesn’t stick out like a sore thumb.
I am just trying to imagine Chinese Flankers (or J-20s) going after F-35s 😮
The Chinese aircraft would have the speed and altitude advantage
We know absolutely nothing about the J-20, so I’d say it’s a bit premature to speculate. The speed/altitude advantages are a negligible, as neither plane would be flying around at their max altitude, and at supersonic speeds for prolonged periods. In A2A missions, the F-35 won’t be flying around at 25k feet. It’ll be flying just as high as Flankers.
, the missiles advantage and the numbers advantage …
What missile and number advantage? Which air forces are you comparing here? You’re confusing theoretical advantages with real advantages. I could have a missile with a 1000nm range, but if my sensors can’t detect a target till it’s 100nm away, then my practical effective range is 100nm. Now if both aircraft have missiles that have roughly comparable ranges, but one aircraft can detect the other from 2-3x the range, then it has a major advantage(which would still be the case with shorter ranged missiles).
I know that the F-35s will not act alone but if push comes to shove , I don ‘t give much chance to the JSF .
Its max speed is said to be 1.6 Mach , it is not build to do knife-fight and fighting bays open (dogfight) is not its cup of tea .
After all , it is a slow LO bomb truck .Cheers .
None of this seems to coincide with how pilots have commented on the F-35’s performance. As for max speeds, all fighters(F-22 included will be subsonic most of the time), so this is another theoretical advantage, which has yet to be demonstrated. The F-35 is able to fire weapons at M1.6, which tends to show that the Vmax is likely higher. Flankers aren’t going to be flying at M1.6 for long periods, and then only if they’ve detected a target(same with the J-20). As for agility, it’ll exceed the F-16/F-18 capabilities in turning, high AoA, acceleration, range, combined with VLO, and higher SA than opponents.
wrightwingSo far , it ‘s gonna be Amraams + AtoG weapons .
Or Amraams + Meteors .
Futur will tell …Cheers .
Not every aircraft will carry the same load out. Some will be providing CAP, while others will carry a defensive load/A2G.
wrightwingCarrier version is Su-33 not Su-35 and we should never forget that Su-35 belongs to the 4th gen but most of the analysts believe that its better than the 5th gen F-35! So Chinese officials may want it almost their fighter gets better capabilities!
Most analysts? Kopp, Wheeler, Sprey?
wrightwingSo? Iaqi MiG-21s allegedly shot down at least one Irani F-14.
Anything could happend in these kind of wars
The question was how was the Mig-25 in a knife fight. The answer is that it would not fare well, under those circumstances.
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