Erm. LANTIRN equipped F-14s eventually replaced the A-6 when it was retired.

The F-22 right now is not fit to replace the F-15E as it simply cannot operate in a dynamic A2G environment where targets change and need to be designated from the aircraft.

(Unless you want to start fitting external pods to the F-22… which sacrifices your precious stealthiness… does that make it still 5th gen? :confused: :rolleyes: )

I’ll bet the USAF could make good use of 50 A-6s in Afghanistan right now. They’d be no better off if they’d 500 extra F-22s in service. :diablo:

Its a bit ironic that the fanbois keep beating the 5th gen drum… when at the moment the precious “5th generation” fighter is the most useless tool in the USAF’s arsenal.

For starters, the F-22 was never intended to replace the F-15Es, so that’s not a relevant critique. Of course if you have to clear a path through airspace protected by S-300/400, the benefits of the F-22(and subsequently the F-35), become more apparent. The whole point, is that there’s no guarantee that all air wars over the next 30-40yrs will be analogous to Afghanistan. If you base your acquisitions/strategies around this model, then you may be very disappointed if and when you face a well equipped adversary.

Why it has started already. 😉
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/index.html
For example, the United States government fiscal year for 2011 (“FY 2011” or “FY11”) is as follows:
1st Quarter: October 1, 2010 – December 31, 2010
2nd Quarter: January 1, 2011 – March 31, 2011
3rd Quarter: April 1, 2011 – June 30, 2011
4th Quarter: July 1, 2011 – September 30, 2011

Correct me if I’m wrong, but there are 3 more quarters. If none of those quarters have increment 3.1 upgrades, then we can discuss them having been shifted right. As of now, I see no indication that a shift has/is occurred.

A – It’s not just flying around, it’s flying around at >M1.0. There is no difference between supercruise, and flying around supersonically at military power. At least I don’t see any.

My point was that supercruising isn’t necessarily utilizing military power(hence the ability to remain at supersonic speeds for tactically significant amounts of time).

B- that is exactly why I don’t think this term makes any sense (by any definition)

My issue is that I don’t really care whether the definition is M1 or M1.5, but…..the same standard should be used for all aircraft(if you’re going to claim something can or can’t supercruise), and the definition being used should be understood before comparisons are made. The reason I say this is it’s an important distinction when LM/DOD/USAF says the F-35 doesn’t supercruise.

C- it isn’t a requirement on purpose because if it was, then F-22 could not be claimed a Gen5. And you fanboys want the F-22 to be Gen5 and all others Gen4 so bad that you twist whatever argument and adjust whatever requirement just to have them there. I personally think that having an IRST is much more important than having an AESA radar..

The point is that the effectiveness of the APG-77/ALR-94 combo, was likely a factor when the decision was made regarding an IRST, considering their ability to detect targets much further away. In any event, I think you can expect to see numerous upgrades over the F-22’s career(i.e. AIRST/DIRST, cheek arrays, EA, MADL, etc…), just like later Tranches of Rafales and Typhoons. The difference being that the current baseline is still higher than anything else flying.

Just a few points-

A- There’s a difference between supercruise, and flying around at Military power.
B- If we’re going to use the supercruise = >M1 without afterburner definition so that Typhoons, Rafales, Gripens, and Su-35s can claim this capability, then it’s a bit disingenuous claim large speed advantages vs the F-35(yes, I know you believe that it’s impossible for an F-35 to do this as well).
C- An IRST isn’t a requirement to meet a particular generational status, and it would seem that the USAF is adequately satisfied with the discreet nature of the APG-77/ALR-94 combo.
D- As for defensive electronics, it’s a bit tricky to say what all the F-22 has or doesn’t have. It will have EA with increment 3.1, whatever else it may or may not have.

Once it gets upgrades it might be a 5+ or 5++ Gen. 😎

When?

F-22 – Increment 3.1 in FY11, Increment 3.2 in FY15
F-35 Block III at IOC

Increments 3.1 and 3.2 will greatly increase the F-22’s A/G prowess though, both in the number of targets that can be simultaneously engaged, but in the ability to target them on the fly.