Yes well, its the same situation with the F22, when gets bounced.

And just what do you envision doing that(especially considering you’d have AWACS, AESA equipped F-15s with IRSTs, F-35s, etc…all sharing info with F-22s, in the time frame you’re talking about)?

:p

1) there is no such thing as “looking like a radar”. A modern RWR detects all energy peaks, the waveform is irrelevent. With interferometry, the origin of the emission is then computed.

This is where you’re wrong. You may want to read up on techniques used in LPI(especially regarding AESA arrays), where the signal/waveforms are designed not to have easily identifiable peaks, so that the RWR filters don’t immediately interpret them as a threat. It’s not a matter of merely having a zero noise floor as a baseline, and any signal above that is automatically spotted. RWRs look for specific things, so they can avoid constant false alarms, but to spot those things on an LPI signal takes much longer and more processing power. When you factor that, with the very short bursts needed by an AESA for updates, it complicates matters even more, as the sample sizes are much smaller, and narrower(meaning the likelihood of many RWRs getting pings is unlikely). Additionally targets that are detected at ranges not perceived as threats, only get sporadic scans, so as to not use any higher power levels or longer scans than necessary.

2)the reason AESA are deemed better at LPI is that they can reduce their sidelobes better, reducing the change of interception by other planes than the target, which is irrelevant in the current discussion. AESA are not better at frequency changes than PESA, transistors are not better than tubes at switching frequency rapidly.

AESA is better here because instead of having 1 or 2 TWTs, you have 1000-2000. A PESA can’t send out multiple beams in different directions simultaneously, while hopping freqs at 1000/sec.

Funny, I thought that you claimed that maneuvrability was irrelevant.. 😎

I’ve never said it was a bad thing, just not the sole factor of success in WVR.

And they can’t??

Not when the Raptor can see them first, and kill them(i.e. AMRAAMs can be enroute before the Raptor is in IRST range). In other words, nobody is going to sneak up on a Raptor. IRST will only assist their odds, because no other air force is going to be able to compete on a systems level with the USAF.

Ww, you’re comparing practical to theoretical speed:

Forget I mentioned top speeds, and let’s focus on the supercruise speeds. My point was that the Raptor has better kinematics. You get caught up in the minutiae, when the top speeds aren’t particularly relevant.

And they can’t??

Under very specific circumstances, but the likelihood of them knowing about the Raptor, and it not knowing about them is pretty slim.

Ww, you’re comparing practical to theoretical speed:

the point wasn’t about the top speed, so let’s not belabor that. It was that the F-22 had speed advantages, as well as signature advantages. That’s all that matters. I know the point you were making, it just wasn’t relevant to the discussion I was having with the other poster, yet you always feel compelled to chime in anyway.

BS. Unlike with the F-22, potential adversaries have IR-guided BVR missiles. Be it R-27T/ET or MICA-IR family. Today’s IRST sensors are capable to detect an F-22 at a distances several times exceeding the 8 mile BVR threshold. And F-22 pilot would have ZERO chances to even learn that there was any missile shot in the making..

If a shot were fired, the F-22’s MLDs would most certainly detect it. Those IRSTs would also have to be within laser range finder range, which could also betray them when lasing. It’s true that an IRST is capable of detecting an F-22, if it either

A- is cued where to look
B- happenstance allows for a quick detection
C- it has the luxury to do a long scan pattern, before being detected by either the F-22 or other platform.

but the question is whether the IRST fighter will detect the F-22 before the F-22 will be aware of them either from onboard or offboard targeting info?
Unless those fighters are completely EMCON, then the ALR-94 will know about them, long before their IRSTs ever have a chance. It can then cue the APG-77 in LPI, or get info from another platform. It’s not gonna be an easy task to surprise an F-22, in a system vs. system fight.

Why?
Do they (fighters) have some kind of a private (intergenenerational) NonAgressionPact? 😀

Because in order to fire at a BVR target, you must first see that target.

Source?

http://www.sfte-ec.se/data/Abstract/A2000-II-02.pdf

flight characteristics at AOAs ranging from below –40 degrees
to above 60 degrees.

As for the 28 deg/sec at 20,000ft- that came from Col. Fornoff giving figures that can be found in Janes.

LOL, you can’t be serious?!

EF M2.3+
Rafale M2.3+
Delta Mirages M2.XX+

You have an uncanny ability to miss the point, which was that the Raptor is a faster plane whether cruising, or when it comes to dash speeds. The other poster had said that the only advantage the F-22 had was low observability, so please try to keep up, and offer commentary that is germaine to the discussion.

How about beam distortion at offbore angles over 45° to maintain A-pole, THE issue in ANY BVR combat?

No legacy plane is going to be firing BVR against an F-22 in the first place(or 5th gen for that matter).

…and F22 can?? 😀

Yes

Some more, LOLs…care to back that up with something solid, or more “anecdotal” evidence?

If Paul Metz isn’t accepted as a knowledgeable source on this matter, then there’s no point in even having a discussion.