Define superior stealth.

Lower optimal, and average RCS.

That means: a well positioned F-117 is stealthier than a well positioned F-22. A badly positioned F-117 is much less stealthy than F-22, maybe even less stealthy than F-15 or other teen fighters.

There’s no angle that an F-22 is less stealthy than a teen fighter.

You are asking a wrong question. Instead you should be asking, why do they call an aircraft with obviously conventional RCS from many angles an “all-aspect stealth”, which it obviously isn’t??
BTW, in multi-target environment, the F-22 or F-35 might find themselves in an less than favorable position towards numerous emitters more than often, there is no way around it. In order to be illuminated directly from under, the F-22 doesn’t have to be directly over the emitter – it’s sufficient if the Raptor banks..

I disagree. The lateral sides of the Raptor are canted, but very flat. They can easily be illuminated in the way that travelling radar waves impact the lateral sides in perfectly normal angle – that means bounced back directly to the source. The only thing you can do is apply some damping to reduce amplitudes.

I think it might be you that’s asking the wrong question, as none of us here has access to info that would allow us to conclude that any angle on the F-22/35 had an obviously conventional RCS. On the one hand, you and Cola are saying that the F-117 has superior stealth due to the flat angles its facets have, and that curvature is unimportant. Now you’re saying that it’s a downside for the F-22/35, and that LM/USAF have it all wrong, and that the pilots that have flown against the F-22 numerous times(including in AESA equipped fighters, approaching from many altitudes/aspect angles) should’ve easily been able to spot it. The proof is in the pudding. Reality is simply not corroborating your assertion.

Even a satellite won’t be looking directly down on these aircraft except under very unusual circumstances, and their ESM systems will keep them from flying directly over a ground based radar site. The only time maneuvers presenting the top or bottom aspect would be performed, would be if the F-22/F-35 is at the merge with an enemy fighter. At that point, the element of surprise is a much lower concern. I suspect that some thought went into their designs to reduce the signatures even from this aspect, though.

The engineers can, of course, try to approach the RCS of a faceted design by fine-tuning the curves and the edges, application of new materials etc. but the curved surface still stays a handicap in terms of RCS.

Did you even bother to read the link posted earlier in the thread

Cashen’s electromagneticists saw that the same results-ensuring that every part of the surface was angled away from the radar in two dimensions- could also be achieved if the surface was curved. Indeed, if the entire skin of the aircraft comprised one surface, with curving contours of constantly changing radius and direction, there would be no edges or creases at all, avoiding any “hot spots” in the RCS.

Are you saying that you’re more of a subject matter expert, or just making a SWAG?

I understand that, but was demonstrating that curvature, and round aren’t necessarily synonyms here. In fact check out some examples of 2 plane continuous curvature, and see if some don’t look remarkably like F-22 and YF-23, among other shapes.:cool:

http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1024&bih=574&tbs=isch%3A1&sa=1&q=continuous+curvature+2+planes&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Here are some definitions (and examples) that might help us out of this semantic quandry, that we seem to find ourselves in.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/curve

curve (kûrv)
n.
1.
a. A line that deviates from straightness in a smooth, continuous fashion.
b. A surface that deviates from planarity in a smooth, continuous fashion.
c. Something characterized by such a line or surface, especially a rounded line or contour of the human body.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/round

round 1 (round)
adj. round·er, round·est
1.
a. Being such that every part of the surface or the circumference is equidistant from the center: a round ball.
b. Moving in or forming a circle.
c. Shaped like a cylinder; cylindrical.
d. Rather rounded in shape: the child’s round face.
e. Full in physique; plump: a round figure.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/obtuse

ob·tuse (b-ts, -tys, b-)
adj. ob·tus·er, ob·tus·est
1.
a. Lacking quickness of perception or intellect.
b. Characterized by a lack of intelligence or sensitivity: an obtuse remark.
c. Not distinctly felt: an obtuse pain.
2.
a. Not sharp, pointed, or acute in form; blunt.
b. Having an obtuse angle: an obtuse triangle.
c. Botany. Having a blunt or rounded tip: an obtuse leaf.

That and they’re failing to explain the B-2/F-22, and their RCS improvements over the faceted F-117(or the fact that no new stealth designs from any nation, are using the “superior” faceted designs). It’s just gotten asinine.