“This early on.” That’s funny. Lets look at facts.
First flight Typhoon prototype: 1994
IOC: 2005Elapsed time: 11 years
First flight JSF prototype: 2000
IOC: …Elapsed time to date: 12 years
Plus much of the delays on the Typhoon programme were due to politics rather that technical or engineering issues.
When the F35 reaches IOC, it will have fully functional A2A, and A2G capabilities. 7yrs after IOC, the Typhoon still doesn’t have full A2G capabilities. It still relies on other aircraft to assist, and certainly won’t carry the variety of ordinance the F35 will.
At least they were built according to specs. It could fly as they planned. JSF doesn’t. And Mach 1.6 is not exactly speed to brag about it.
How fast do you envision Typhoons, etc… flying in combat? You do realize that even F22s, PAK FAs, J20s, will spend most of their time subsonic.
TR1,
Typhoon: In service, sustainable high speed, sustainable high effective ceiling, sufficent number of aam’s to sustain combat, a2a systems fully working, lo features, DAS defensive aid features, future development planned and feasible, costs known.
F35. Not in service, not capable of sustaining high speed, low effective ceiling, low number of aam’s, no weapons tested, lo features, EODAS short range defensive aid, future development doubtful as no weight or space margins and dependant on basic development and testing being successfull, costs anybodies guess.
Define sustainable high speed/high effective ceiling, or sufficient number of AAMs.
Do you believe that the F35’s A2A systems won’t be working at IOC? What speed/altitude can the F35 sustain(you do realize that it’s ceiling is in the 50-60k foot range right, and that it is likely to be able to cruise in the M1.1 to 1.3 range?) They’ve already demonstrated pretty signifcant capabilities in exercises/calibrated test ranges. Nice try in your attempt to give the Typhoon any degree of parity in signature reduction. Clean, the Typhoon’s frontal RCS is higher than a Super Hornet. As soon as you add a “sufficient” number of AAMs, that’s only going to go up. You made blatantly incorrect assertions about growth potential, which the Blocks 4 thru 7 spiral development path clearly contradict. The Typhoon has no directly comparable system to the EODAS, which by the way isn’t nearly as short ranged as you’re asserting(given its ability to track ballistic missiles at over 800 miles, it should offer considerable BVR situational awareness against afterburning targets, and very respectable ranges even against non-afterburning threats.
With external stores, no more stealth, but all the design limitations dictated by stealth requirements remain…
and this ultra expensive thing degrades from a fifth generation stealth fighter to a not so very performant 4th generation fighter, in competition with the most advanced 4+ generation fighters that can internally be equiped with the same electronics as this holey cow.
That does not look very good, I think 😡
Not every mission requires stealth, so the option to use external stores is hardly a negative. A 5000lb stealth warload is not insignificant. What 4th Gen fighters regularly carry a much heavier load, if they want to have useful combat radii? As for “not so very performant,” it has better performance that F-16/18s, and better avionics than anything else. As for it being ultra-expensive, it’ll cost less then Typhoons/Rafales, and only slightly more than the Teen series.
“should be able to carry” would be more accurate 😉
How so? Any sources to suggest otherwise?
I thought the B-2 flies without emitting when operating in high threat areas. The radar on it is purely for navigation through low threat areas.
They have to be able find mobile ICBMs/etc… somehow.
I think a safe bet is that Raytheon wants to be as competitive as possible, with Northrop Grumman. Whether or not they’ve achieved the same level of LPI capabilities is unknown, but it’s highly doubtful that they aren’t trying. Were that not the case, the USAF, and USN would upgrade their F-15/16s and F-18s with NG radars.
I haven’t seen this posted here yet(apologies if I missed it in another thread).
M1.61 and 9.9G so far, from an F-35A, and they’re still going to be testing at higher speeds(and possibly higher Gs too).
The APG-63(V)3 does not have the same LPI modes that the APG-81 & 77 enjoy.
Do we know this to be a fact, or is it more a case of not having been revealed?
Just think, if only F-22 production had continued for another 100-150 units one could both scrap JSF and avoid all this hand-wringing nonsense as to what to fill the gap with: the answer would be “nothing, and with reduced TACAIR numbers support assets can be reduced too!” ‘Nonsense’ referring here to the F-15C/D stuff that is; the Es, sure. At least nobody is suggesting retaining the strategically irrelevant F-16 platform… yet.
100-150 more Raptors would’ve been nice, but it wouldn’t make up for ~2400 F-35s. As for the F-16, the USAF is going to upgrade at least 300-350(and possibly as many as 600) F-16s with airframe life extensions, new displays, AESA radars, etc…
The APG-68 offered greater detection ranges, as well as the number of modes available, compared to the APG-66. The latest variant, the (v)9 offers 33% greater range than the variant preceding it. The APG-80 is an AESA radar, and the APG-66(v)2 is an MLU upgrade, which gives similar functionalities to the later model APG-68s.
Sweet. When it says “top design” speed, would that mean it might be limited to a lower speed, say Mach 1.3 for example due to certain stealthy materials etc? Or is Mach 1.6 it’s operational top speed?
M1.6 is the operational top speed. Other articles have mentioned that testing would be done at higher speeds as well.
While you present an interesting conundrum for the F-22 fanbois… In reality I’m quite confident that in reality the “LPI” radar is nothing of the sort. “HTI” (Harder To Intercept) might be more applicable – but by no means impossible. There are loads of published papers examining the algorithms of defeating LPI.
You can be very sure that the various military-centric electronic companies around the world are several years, if not decades ahead of publicly released work.
Care to explain the nuance between low probability, and harder to intercept(lower probability)?
Nothing showing but your careless. Photo of Deflecting upwrds has already been released for a long time.
Also,
nothing secret, if you had no blind faith for J-20’s DSI, you would already see the advantage of PAKFA’s intake naturally.
Fool needs translation, I don’t.
In addition to your fine attention to detail, your civility is also to be commended.
Yes, provided that mission is strike that is…
Raw performance will only be the deciding factor, if everything else is equal. Most air to air kills have been by a foe that was never seen.