Well cutting the number of airframes sure isn’t going to help keep costs under control. A reasonable certainty in a known number of airframes is necessary, or the unit costs will increase, resulting in the typical death spiral in procurement. This isn’t of benefit to the military or the taxpayer.
While the F-35 is replacing the F-18A-Ds, it will form the high end of the mix with the Super Hornets, so costing less than them isn’t the issue. Keeping their costs under control, so that they can get enough airframes is, though.
I think that once they get into serial production, these ridiculous price estimates will start to fade away, as the LRIP models aren’t representative of the fleet. I also think that the maintenance costs are exaggerated(and so does the USAF).
Do you disagree that the F-35C wasn’t designed to replace the A-12, etc….?
I can understand you not liking the aircraft as a direct replacement for a program like that, and feeling that the Navy should’ve focused in that area.
I disagree that for what it is intended to do, that it won’t do very well, though.
There are more errors than that. The B model doesn’t have a longer range than the A model either.
Some sense in that thinking except that we know that Patriot is far from infallible as Gulf War I proved.
You might want to refer to the performance of the Patriots in say the 2003 time frame vs. 1991, and then realize that they’ve had 7yrs to advance even from that level.
It’s not the jamming, but that giant missile with a range of eternity aren’t agile to deal with a decent fighter.
The jamming will limit the range that the SAM site can see that fighter too though, hence the smaller envelope.
In other words then: Growlers will continue be tasked with IADS, as always.
That’s kind of the point of stand off jamming planes.
How about HOJ ?:)
That’ll work, if the pilot is dumb enough to get close enough to the SAM site. I guarantee you that a SAM isn’t going to be killing a maneuvering target at 400km(or anywhere near that, for that matter).
the growler has standoff jamming
That’s its whole purpose in fact, as a stand off jammer.
Not with range enough to stay out of S-300/400 envelope and still be of any use whatsoever.
Only thing they bring is to alert OPFOR to send some fighters, which in turn means the flight will also need air cover, which in turn means the same ole fight-your-way-in as with Phantoms.
That envelope’s going to be a lot smaller once the jamming starts. If you think that the Pk is going to be very high at hundreds of km, then you’re pretty optimistic.
Growlers will support both of them, but the Super Hornets will require it, and that’s the difference.
But the Congress has appropriated additional aircraft that the services need, but for various reasons does not request – like F/A-18E/F’s which are desperately needed; C-130J which are needed; C-17’s which are needed, etc.
The Air Force disagrees.
The Navy is on record that it is confident in the capabilities of the Super Hornet until 2020’s – plenty of time to develop the NGAD/F/A-XX.
Confident in an all Super Hornet force, or confident that Super Hornets augmented by F-35Cs will be effective? The Super Hornet is always going to have issues of survivability against long range SAMs vs. the F-35. How many Super Hornets/Growlers will it take to conduct the same mission is the question you need to be asking, and that’s where you’re not really saving money.
– Fact: The F-35C is designed to have more range than the F/A-18A-D. However, the Navy Acquisition says:
“Range: Current assessment 499 nm (Threshold 600 nm)”
First of all, if you’re using those numbers, it’s no wonder you have such negative views. The F-35A has a combat radius of ~673nm or more on internal fuel, and the C variant is >700nm.
In any event, it does not promise the range of the A/F-X design – and the long range is what will be needed against enemies armed with coastal / long ranged ASM’s and coastal subs.
The CVBG can still stay 200-300nm off shore, and leave the F-35C the ability to fly 400-500nm inland, and with JSOW/JASSM hit targets another 200-600nm further. This gives the F-35C the ability to hit targets over 1300nm inland. This is all first day of war capabilities. This doesn’t include EFTs or tanking on the backend of the mission, to further increase the distance inland, that targets can be hit.
The A/F-X should have been developed, but was not – and leaves the Navy with a range problem. Instead, the Navy’s requirement was changed when the A/F-X program was closed and merged with the MRF program to eventually become the JAST (JSF.) The F-35C, even if it meets its design goals, is the wrong aircraft for the Navy. The Navy should buy more Supers in the interim, and begin development on the NGAD (F/A-XX) now – not in 2015. Buy as few F-35C’s as possible. Yesterday, the GAO posited just this sort of approach, sans the NGAD which was not part of their study.
This is a far riskier proposition, both in terms of first day of war capabilities, and in dealing with 5th Gen opponents. The C variant can be in service in 6yrs- what you’re proposing wouldn’t be available till after 2025, assuming there’s no technical or cost issues at that time. It also has an adverse effect on the USAF and USMC buys.
Congress feels differently.
I would think that the DOD and the end users feelings matter more than Congress, with regards to this matter. Congress is hardly the subject matter expert on such things, and often force the military to buy things they don’t want, as it keeps constituents in their respective districts happy.