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Robbiesmurf

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  • in reply to: "Carburetor icing" over the Hump? #874397
    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    Interesting points Anon, there are other aspects to consider. Fuels are by their nature hygroscopic. I take it the aircraft were being refuelled at lower altitudes where it was hot and humid. The fuel would then attract more water which could then settle and separate in the tank. Plus the hot and cold times of the tanks would form condensation inside, adding to the amount of free water. When being pumped through the carb it’s temperature would also drop when passing through the venturi, that could be a factor. They are still learning about ice formation in aircraft, the crash at Heathrow of the BA 777 has shed some new light on a phenomena that was thought to be well understood for decades.

    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    AS2229/2230 countersink are 90 or 120 degrees, indeed dependent on the material thickness. That has to do with the area of influence?
    The SBAC standards be it AS (Air Standards) or SP (Standard parts) are also supplied with a few different proud heads. There is Snap, which is a small diameter, high head, Mushroom, which has a larger diameter and lower height and of course, Flathead, which speaks for itself. The MS series are as you say countersunk to 100 degrees (MS20426). The proud version (MS20470) is actually called Universal head. There are also repair rivets with a NAS (National Aerospace System) number. They have a larger shank diameter to the head diameter. They also come in various strengths (and material specs) , A, AD, D, DD & B. They are identifed by various markings on the heads. A=plain AD= sunken dot D= raised dot DD= 2 raised dashes B= raised cross. An interesting side note, the B series are used to join magnesium alloys because of their corrosion resistant properties. The B’s can be stored indefinately without any change in it’s hardness. I assume they are a magnesium alloy.
    Hand-built rivet cutters were part of the apprenticeship course if I remember correctly, along with rivet squeezers.
    Your point about the different c/s angle on the Valiant. I remember a Douglas a/c having a skin repair in the UK, many years ago. The skin was countersunk to some 87 degrees and the rivets were driven from inside to out (universal head). After that they were all milled on the outside. Quite a number of rivets had to be re-done as they had not been driven correctly.

    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    Most of the ally alloy rivets do work-harden when rivetting. I have a selection of AS and SP types running the range of materials being L36, L37, L58 & L86 (black, natural, green & violet), AS has been superceded by SP standards and are I believe interchangeable. I also have bucket of MS-AD rivets that have hardened already. One day, when I get a proper oven….. I have used a number of the AGS (British) rivets for a couple of small projects and have experienced the work-hardening. The trick when rivetting is buzz them in one go, maybe with a slight touch afterwards. Continuous hammering causes them to become more resistant….
    What kind of equipment do you use to rivet?

    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    I’ve just read up on the rivets (AP101A-1401-1 Dec 85 amdt11). The DTD.303 standard was changed to BS.L158. It’s main carachteristic is that it doesn’t require heat treatment. Although being slightly weaker, I suspect the rivets were introduced to speed up production. A service-life of 20 years + was not really expected at the time… Another factor could have been the available materials, the HE162 is a good example of that.

    in reply to: Hunter airborne #888075
    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    What on earth would she do with it ?

    Sit in the cockpit with airbags?

    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    Well, we do have a product called PX1, a lanolin suspension. When used correctly, it can protect metals for decades.

    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    Indeed, sacrificial coatings and parts is not new and has many applications. The Sidney Opera House uses zinc blocks to protect the steel pipes of the air conditioning which are cooled by sea water. Zinc annodes are also used in simple water boilers in homes these days. The rivets I used are both of the same dimensions (0410= 1/8 dia 5/8 long), heads are both 90 degree and the dimensions are the same. That is why I chose those. I think the choice of material has mainly been down to availability at the time. Post war Landrovers were built out of large amounts of re-cycled Spitfires. Steel was short at the time, it was spread all over Europe in 25-50 ton blocks at the time. Even the pop rivets used on the Landrovers came from the AGS stock…

    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    Avoid the MS rivets then. They do age harden and be a right little……….tinker when using. To soften them you’d have to heat treat them. 450 deg C for about 30 mins, after quenching, keep them in the freezer until needed. The treatment normally lasts about 20 mins. Freezing them slows that down.

    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    @ Powerandpassion.
    Interesting points you made about the differences between the hidminium and magnesium rivets.
    I got to thinking about the weight saving and put my OCD head on and had a look.
    I happen to have a few hidminiums (AS2229 0410) and loads of the magnesiums (AS162 0410). I weighed them with my scales and came up with this:
    70x AS2229 0410 = 26 grams
    70x AS162 0410 = 24 grams
    Both are c/s 90 deg rivets. It might not seem a great difference but rivet distances are in general 3-5x D (diameter), so the number nailed into an airframe is quite a number. I wonder what the weight saving would be. Have you counted the rivet holes?
    When demanding them in the RAF, the D of Q was per 1/4 lb. The thing there being that if you had a bag of each, they would both weigh the same..;)

    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    @ OneEighthBit.
    Simple id of the rivet materials=
    Black L36 tensile strength was 7 tons/sq in. Mark on head/tail A
    Plain alu L37 tensile strength was 25 tons/sq in. Mark on head/tail D
    Green L58 tensile strength 16 tons/sq in. Mark on head/tail X
    Violet was L86 tensile strength 17 tons/sq in. Mark on head/tail S
    You can start sorting them out..:highly_amused:

    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    Well if nothing else this thread has helped me figure out what the different colours in this lot mean.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]245230[/ATTACH]

    You’ve got American (MS) and AGS (SP/AS) rivets there. The countersunk (100 deg) with a small dimple and bevelled tail are MS20426 AD’s. The purple with a rounded (snap) head are SP80’s, they should have an identification (‘O’ or ‘S’). The magnesium should also have an ‘X’ id.

    in reply to: A-W Meteor NF.14 WS788 Restoration Thread #895740
    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    OM15 is a good easing oil to help loosen rusted nuts and bolts. Mineral hydraulic oil has good creep properties but does not lubricate that well. I use it in combination with a light oil once the OM15 has loosened it somewhat.

    in reply to: Graffiti Left By Engineers In Older Aircraft (Canberra) #901355
    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    I have seen some good examples in my time. In ’77, morale was a bit low in the RAF and someone had used masking tape on the bottom of a Wessex that was visiting us at Machrihanish. It said, ‘good ‘ere init’..

    in reply to: Graffiti Left By Engineers In Older Aircraft (Canberra) #901505
    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    Victor XL231 has plenty of graffiti hidden around the airframe! We are finding some on Meteor WS788 too. It’s nice to preserve these personal touches which make part of the aircraft’s history.

    Have ever found any blood stains on 231? We could all honestly say that we had shed blood for our country..

    in reply to: Citation As Classroom #901687
    Robbiesmurf
    Participant

    The Sunderland at Duxford was said to have been used as a disco before it was rescued.

Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 473 total)