But greg, I have already read this translation in other forums and firstly it was an encounter with rafale MF1 with pilots arriving directly from Crusaders and secondly even with this substandard and with less experienced pilots the rafale still achieved a marginal superiority over block 52. And I remember that even with the F1 standard the greek pilots where amazed by spectra’s capabilities in the same report.

In the most recent reports that I translated with the rafale F2 I see very praisworthy comments about the MMI, the datafusion, the situational awarness, cockpit etc…Of the rafale F2 which have their weight since the greek pilots also gives what would they would like on the rafale and which the rafale lacks like the missile to taget countdown on the HUD or the french pilots admitting that the HMS +Iris-t is a daedly combo. So it is a “neutral” view without the usual bias of “industry sources”

And this view is very positive about the rafale in both recent articles you provided. again the rafale F2 is certainly the only aircraft in the competition which dared to be compared and confronted to the very modern blck52 and the results (even if no exact kill ratio is given) seems very positive for the rafale knowing that the F3 or even more the F3+ will still widen the gap with the F16 block52. (imagine with the meteor!)

So you should really don’t mix a rafale F1 which was already deemed as “marginally superior” to a F16 block 52 with a rafale F2. According to a rafale test pilot wich was quoted in the monthly Air fan (special issue about the rafale during the F2 introduction) there is a generation gap between the two standard as well as a gap in capabilities.

I think that you are confusing many people when you don’t make the distinction between these events since they don’t imply the same standards.

So to conclude the rafale F2 faired pretty well against the block52+ even against very experienced an skilfull greek pilots in the ecents events.

EDIT : I see that we have the same interpretation with nicolas10 when I posted my post. And as he said the Greek AF can pick the 90kn variant of the M88 along with AESA, OSF ng …which are standard for export markets now. But I don’t think the rafale will win in greece ince frane has already won many military contracts (FREMM, helos…)

Some points.
1. French pilots are considered amongst the best in the world. The fact that some of them, were flying Crusaders before, does not make them less capable. To the contrary!!! Flying an old bird, most of the times, makes one a tactics’ freak.
2. The F1 standard of the rafale did pose SOME disadvantage. And I write SOME disadvantage, because at the time of the encounter nor did the Greek B52+ had an operational self protecting system, installed!!!
3. The government wanted to give a contract to Sarkozy. Traditionally we get Mirage fighters for the AF and german MEKO frigates for the navy.
As I have already posted here, had the Rafale been more competitive, you would already be cutting metal for our first rafales, whistle the germans would have the MEKO deal.
Dont ask me for a proof for that. The only one is kept inside PM’s head.

Arthuro, I’m more than impressed by your patience on front of such a load of disonesty.

I now strongly suspect Greg to be a Greek Jako …..)

Thanx a lot:diablo:

Hmmm so the EF is not even properly evaluated in DACT. I guess if its selected this would be another procurement where Rafale people will cry foul.

The thing with evaluations is that still if somebody wants to cheat and favor one contender over the others, he can still do it, even in a Switzerland-type evaluation.
Check what happened in Norway!
Officers in the HAF have a very accurate idea of what to expect from each contender. (EF, Rafale, Gripen, F-16 B52 B60, F/A-18E/F)
The difference is that this idea didnt get an official form.
The reason is that the government would like to have control over the process.

Note that in the Greek bid the Rafale seams dead but the EF has not won yet.

and:
You don’t know. If the Rafale did actually massacred their opponents from far away with their Mica’s: it is a clear advantage.

It was certainly not a massacre
All three of them. If so you would already be constructing our rafales.
Trust me on that.

Alas, once again, France lose an exporting chance because of improper selling tactics.

This is not correct toan

Mostly because Pr Sarkozy actually is taking a contract for 4+2 FREMMs.
If the Rafales were more competitive, then, considering the tradition on getting French fighters, we would get the Rafales but not the FREMMs.

So what you are saying is the Rafale should basically be much better than it currently is compared to the F 16 Block 52 to do justice to its higher price tag.

What do you think about the Block 60 vs Rafale F2/F3 ?

IICR the B60 had an enormous price tag, when sold to the UAEs.

You did mention in an early post, in the HAF forum about an engagement with the F2 Rafales that the F 16s won ? When was that ?

Sorry I think that was in this thread itself

This post – http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1354354&postcount=227

What I wrote is that the rafale failed to pose a clear advantage.
It was better BUT NOT that much.