Hi,

If this Cub was built for the military as an L-4 do you have it’s military serial number? if so have you got it’s US Military record card? I have some details of L-4’s used by the US Army/AAF in the ETO but would need the serial to see if I have anything on it.

Regards,

Garry.

Good points JDK, I recall that several recovered wreck parts stored at Raf bases were later sent to scrap yards because the wreckage was regarded as scrap by uninformed RAf people who just wanted a tidy place. Eg RAF Henlow sent parts from Mickle Fell Stirling, Larkhill Tomahawk,Battle and internal fittings from Lanc S sugar to a scrapyard at Baldock.

There is an element of collectors fever in wreck recovery, a sort of pressure that if you dont act on a new find then someone one else will grab it. This I think is what has caused the rush and damage to many recoveries where locals have grabbed wrecks because of the potential value. Sadly that will not change even if the recovery is not officially cleared.

This is a very good point,but it is not just the RAF who have scrapped/destroyed parts from crash sites,many recovery groups have done exactly the same. Two which spring to mind in Wales are the F-5E Lightning near Aberystwyth and the Douglas Boston in Snowdonia. The “Wartime Aircraft Recovery Group” from Shropshire removed a complete outer wing,tailplane,main U/C leg and other parts from the Lightning in 1979 only to sell them later for scrap,and the “Boston Havoc Preservation Trust” had the parts from the Boston,they scrapped one outer wing(even got £150 for it!) and who knows where the rest has gone.

Unless a proper museum is involved with a good conservation plan I feel it is better to leave things where they are.

Garry.

According to the ABMC database 2nd Lt.Myer R.Winkelman is buried at Plot A,Row 36,Grave 41 of the Epinal American Cemetery. With all the debate on the originality of the aircraft does anyone know when the pilots body was recovered? during the war or during the recovery of the parts used in the rebuild?

G.O.

Ok Guys,so which museum would you suggest? or if it goes to a collector how will anyone be able to see it? it might as well be scrapped.

As to the armour rusting away,it probably will but not for a couple of hundred years,it still has most of the original paint intact at present. It is highly unlikely that any “passing souvenir hunters” will carry 250 lbs of turret armour away,and if they do they are commiting a crime,just the same as if someone breakes into your house or steals your car. The protection of military remains act is an act of UK law,regardless of who owns or has rights to the wreckage. I know there are those who would like to see a free for all on crash sites so they can cart off as much wreckage as they like(to sell it on ebay in some cases) and dig any site,even those known to be war graves,but like it or not the act exists,and it does so for a reason.

Alan,with all due respect I have been visiting crash sites and recording them for over thirty years and the only time I have seen large parts moved or removed from a site is when a “wreckologist” moves them. Surely you would agree it is far easier to locate a site where wreckage remains? or would you prefer to see all high ground sites cleared completely? across the UK there has been a huge amount of wreckage removed by recovery groups since the late 60’s but where has it all gone? museums? collections? scrap? if it has gone to museums then where are they? if it has gone into private collections then how is anyone supposed to find out who has what?

G-ASEA,Snowdonia national park have never had a policy of removing wreckage from sites,dispite what the rumor mill would have us believe.

I’m more than happy to discuss this subject with anyone who wants to,all I ask is they are not the sort who dig up sites without permission knowing they will find human remains,or who sell wreckage on sites such as ebay,basically those who partake in what the BAAC refer to as the “grubby” side of aviation archaeology;) .

G.O.

Hi Nils,

Before doing anything further at the site you MUST contact the British embassy and your local police.

G.O.

I am fully aware of all the arguments about sites being memorials and being historical in context. I do not agree with that view unless a real memorial is funded and put on site.

What exactly do you class as a “real memorial”? As far as I’m concerned if the families of those who died in a crash count the site and any remaining wreckage as a memorial,then a memorial it is.

In my view anyone who disturbs a fatal crash site(for any reason) is no better than some yob who vandalises any other grave or memorial.

G.O.

I agree it is a great shame when things like this end up on evilBay. Considering it’s location perhaps the Norfolk & Suffolk Aviation Museum could do something?

Garry.

All in good time Andy,but lets just say if you are a taxi driver or a TV user you have to produce a copy of your licence if asked to do so,I wonder how many ebay sellers could produce a copy of the licence if asked?

Perhaps someone who sells parts on ebay could post their view on the subject??