I know it as a generalist. I do not have the entire brief.

The 2004 ASR was for weaponization and avionics. As told to me, some deficiencies in the technology demonstrator was found as the weapons available now have changed. Some avionics available are more compact etc. Then the engine specs was sounded (I am not saying that they decided on the engine, just specs). Hence, the wings, air intakes etc have to be modified. These things were reserved as MK2.

For familiarization with the a/c, IAF is ordering a squadron or two with the current specs. IMO, GE 404 IN will not be ordered any more than contracted (if not for maintainability).

Don’t be a jerk. :p

Anyway, I figured it out offline. 😀

Which was the Aero India where the same thing happened with a HALs model for a advanced jet trainer (something like the hawk), mock up and all, only to end up as a orphan sponserless project?

I am told 2005 aeroindia

Revisiting Indian Combat Air Trainer project

I have always thought that it would have been better for LCA and Indian aviation industry (as a whole) had the LCA been inducted into IAF in its basic form, and subsequent developments would have been done in blocks. However, IAF being the user of an ADA/HAL product (I dont think IAF was actually an active party in its development???) had every right to expect a product at a certain time (whatever time (realistic/unrealistic) they were given by the designers/manufacturers) and ask for any additions if they felt that a certain product (if not provided within the original timeframe) was no longer relevant .

IAF was involved by deputing its own personnel, pilots for the project. The design phase, IAF had provided specs. Similarly, Arjun Tank, its army’s own project with Army deputation. One Major general was with Arjun Project for 17 years.

As per this

Dr. Atre say’s “Most of the times I felt that they were genuinely interested in seeing the most important and major technology of designing combat aircrafts in India. But at times I felt that they were not genuinely interested in LCA and acted as auditors rather than players. This ambivalent attitude reflected somewhat in the interest shown by HAL. If IAFs attitude was more positive and proactive, the project would (in my opinion) have gained more momentum.”

If you want confirmation from the IAF side, then you should read Air marshal Rajkumars book on LCA. He writes that when ACM Kaul wanted to attend the LCA’s first flight, his junior suggested him to not to go there as it will show IAF’s commitments towards the LCA project.

Sure – and I think you put your fingure on the crux of the problem – the difficulty of now finding a document that says what the initial envisaged budget was – and the closest I can come to it is an article linked from the LCA archives on BR – the forum that my learned friend Rahul M is a moderator on: http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/HAL-Tejas It quotes government sources so its probably accurate.

Here are a few quotes from there:

The LCA was originally expected to fly in 1993, and in May 1989 the program was projected by the government’s review committee to cost Rs. 5,600 crores (56 billion rupees or about US$1.2 billion at the time).[38] FSED Phases 1 and 2 were projected to cost, respectively, Rs. 2,188 crores (US$467 million) and Rs. 2,340 crores (US$499 million).[32] According to the 1999 Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) report, the first phase of the project had by the end of 1998 consumed Rs. 2,500 crores; by the end of 2000, the total Phase 1 cost had risen to about Rs. 3,000 crores.[5] The delays have also led to further indirect costs. For instance, the unavailability of the Tejas compelled the Indian Air Force to upgrade its MiG-21bis aircraft at a cost of Rs. 2,135 crores.

So Phase 1 was budgeted at 2188 crores and by the end of 2000 had risen to 3000 crores. Never mind the additional 2135 crores to upgrade the MiGs – and if you’ve done any budgeting, any indirect costs are part of the project cost – but lets be magnanimous to Rahul and conveniently ignore those – Phase 1 about 900 crores over budget in 2000!!

The facts are different. They actually closed Phase I with excess budget and moved out to Phase II with the excess budget from Phase I. IMO this was an achievement which was tom tomed.

Probably CAG has calculated this in different manner than the original budgeting procedure for LCA.

to add to that, a number of the tech that will go into MCA is already ready or will be by the time the project starts viz. FBW (unless they go for FBL), glass cockpit/HMDS, composites, radar etc.

unlike when the LCA started there is no need for a TD phase anymore, IAF itself understands that quite well.

if you want to see an exact quote I can’t, I’m just extrapolating assuming IAF to be a rational player. 🙂

Since you are speculating, let me also indulge. MCA systems and subsystems might have different linage. You are right when you say that capabilities have been built. But, the current proposal is that ADA wants to work with someone (R&D JV?) else for this project. The costs also are going to be very high. Commonalities with LCA project will be limited to capabilities that have been acquired.

Initially IAF wanted proof of concept. LCA project began as a fighter project after 2004 when final ASR was issued. The 1984 ASR was sort of provisional. It was meant to define what spec the a/c should be nearer to.

Similarly, MCA will go through this. People cannot understand the fact that LCA was a technology Demonstrator until the final specs rolled in. Unstable aircraft was too ambitious those days and IAF wanted proof. Just because a foreign Air Marshal wrote his opinion or few journos twisted their stories, dosen’t make the LCA project change its characteristics. True, the aircraft was supposed to enter service some time back. But the project was started from “near” scratch again after 1998.

Now IAF loves the unstable platform so much that they are trying to make it a success.

Yet another reason why I believe the MRCA will be a single engined bird.

Saying that I really do not like Pranab as the Finance Minister he is a bit of an old school guy. Chidambaram was much more able, but home ministry is of more importance now.

I beg to differ. Chidambram is just a Tax Ogre. If you already don’t know that he has been moved to Home because of his bad performance in Finance.