cheers. 😉

That thing in the picture is a missile. Same style of potato-masher control fins as the R-77. Thicker body though, and looks like it might be trying to be more conical than cylindrical. My guess is an SRBM of some sort.

thats what i thought at first as well. but judging from the hand, the fins are way too small, and they are the wrong shape. also, IIRC, R77 rear fins stick out on little joints (or whatever u call them) and are not connected directly to the body of the missile itself.

it might be an R77 ‘inspired’ design, or it could just be a funny looking paperweight, but its not an actual R77 component. 🙂

one uses compression to creat thrust while the other uses exantion.

I was simply responding to your assertion that it couldn’t be done by citing an example. It can be done. 😀

well, i merely said it was very difficult. i never said impossible.

As far as I can recall that F-14 ditched in the sea, it was an accident. In that event the missiles would have seperated from the airframe. That however is all I remember, I’ll have to visit the stack of old NG mags in my garage to elaborate further. But to return to the subject of our torpedo. If you have a fairly accurate idea of where the torpedo landed, as in GPS/Loran/Glonass coordinate it is simply a matter of searching methodically.

thats the problem, u wont know the exact co-ordinated of the torpedo. to know the exact co-ordinates where the fish stopped, u need to first know the exact spot where the sub fired the fish, the direction the fish as going (assuming no course changes), and how far it went.

alternatively, u would need to have sonar kit good enough to get an exact range and baring of a torpedo fired hundreds if not thousands of miles away and tracking it even after the engines have cut out until there is the ‘thumb’ of it hitting the seabed.

thats a very tall order for any navy.

without accurate co-ordinates, ur chances of finding something as small as a torpedo is remote. there is just too much junk in the sea, especially near land.

if u tried a ‘k129’ job with a torpedo. u’d get thousands if not millions of possible matches of similar sized objects in the sea (assumning u can scan that accurately in the first place). the odds are u wont find what u are looking for.

another problem with that idea is that u need to use active sonar pinning to find that mk46. no way of keeping that a secret.

so, if ur the pentagon. u have the rough location of an unexploded mk46, and u have the PLAN pinning the hell out of that area. is it that much of a challenge to put one and one together?

then we’d have the stroy splashed all across the papers instead of it being relegated to ONE internet source.

Sure, it is a huge and expensive taks but the reward is being able to Fox one of the enemies most sophisticated systems which can win you a battle or even the entire war. Surely you must be able to see why the of prospect of savaging or even anhiliating an enemy fleet makes such an effort worth while. Keep in mind what lenghts the USA went to to salvage the K-129. That was an enormously expensive undertaking and it involved technology that is by no means beyond the modern PLAN. Furthermore the US, at the time, did not know exactly where in the central Pacific the K-129 had gone down and they still found it at 5000 meters plus. Of course what was recovered from the K-129 is still classfied but some of the people involved in that operation are on record as saying that the recovery of a single missile was considered to have made it worth while to the USA. Never mind recovering codebooks and chypher mahcines. 😀

did i not say that i too beleive the PLAN would want to get their hands on a mk46? :confused:

That was my first post on the subject of this torpedo this is my second you must be confusing me with somebody else 😀

well, ur words were: “…MK 46 torpedo which they savage from sea and make a almost similiar copy although the capabilities is not as gd as the original.

if u werent talking about RE, what where u talking about?

Why would the USA want to RE MiG-29’s when they have as good or better aircraft them selves and can buy MiG-29’s by the batch from disallusioned ex-Soviet client states and they have done that sure enough. The US interest in the MiG-29 was and still is testing it to find out what it can do, how maneuverable it is, how reliable are it’s weapons and most importantly of all how best to jam its communications systems, radar, IR search system and missiles. 😀

first off, the americans cant simply buy old falcrums or flankers from ex-soviet countries because the russians will not let the deal go through. there is almost certainly a contractal agreement not to re-sell the equipment; russia might have lost its superpower status, but it still carries alot of political clout, especially in its own back yard; lastly, the russians can cut off the spears and soon the migs and flankers will be grounded (there is actually a mig29 at top gun, but it has no engines).

secondly, did we miss the bit where i mentioned ‘top gun’? :diablo: there is a difference between knowing what a plane can do on paper and actually flying against it for real. 😎 thats also why ‘better’ ac will not do. nothing flies exactly like a mig29 or 2u27 except a mig29 or su27.

so, only vage and unsubstantuated romours for the torpedos and fox news as a sourse for the cruise missiles? please tell me u are kidding! 😮

i dont know that much about underwater salvage, but finding a whole ship is extremely difficult never mind a tiny torpedo. even if the PLAN did manage to find one and fish it out of the water. why would they RE it when they can easily get fish of similar if not better performance from the russians to use or RE?

as for the tomahawks. well, the complex and fragile eletronics (which is, frankly the only part worth REing) in the HEAD of a missile doing a couple hundred mph at a few dozen feet high hitting the ground has zero chance fo remaining ‘intact’. if u ever seen what damage a car traveling at around 50mph, 0 feet off the ground suffers after crashing into a stationary object, then u would realise how obserd ‘fox’s’ claims really are.

even if crashed missiles were to find their way to china, their value in terms of REing is zero, and its highly questionable whether they are even worth that much from merely an ‘insparational’ prespective.

while we are on the subject of Z9s. here’s a pic of an IR jammer on a WZ9. however i cant seem to spot it on that last pic hyperwarp just posted.

reverse engineering in china was actually only a breif phonominon, unlike what many western publications would seem to suggest.

china only reversed engineered at the very begining of its break up with the USSR (before it merely licence produced as the soviets just gave them the blueprints), when its industrial base had not yet been laid down. in effect, china only reverse engineered because she did not have the ability to understand, let alone change or improve on the designed they have available to them.

as time progressed, the chinese started to learn more and more from RE and begain to make changes and modifications, and this was evident throughout the life of the J7 and J8.

what china has been doing continuously, and is still fully committed in doing is to get its hands on better tech, take the thing apart and LEARN from it. its the engineering principles and ideas that china is copying instead of the actual designs themselves.

unless the piece of tech in question is decades more advanced, compotent engineers will be able to quite easily link what they already know to what is needed to know to make the equipment they have in their hands. once they have the engineering principles, it just a matter of time before the use that principle to make something similar or improve on existing designs or both.

i got three points to make about hyper’s cockpit shots.

1) they appear to be from different ac or simulators – note the displays directly blow the MFDs. on the first pic, there are three round displays, but on the simulator shot, tehre are only two visible, but crucially, one of them is clearly square in shape.

2) the siumlator appears to be NVG compatable, so i’d assume that the real thing is as well.

3) they might fit in more with the following story. http://military.china.com/zh_cn/news/568/20041129/11985743.html

which states that the air force (PLAAF) has taken delivery of the first of its new gen cmbat simulators – with are the most advanced in china and claimed to have reached international advanced levels – designed to simulator ‘some’ new ac.

so this might be a J10 simulator cockpit pic, but it could also, conceivably be a fully ‘indiginised’ J11 cockpit, or even both!