Cameron has confirmed Typhoon will be involved, possibly later today.

It’s been over 12 hours since the resolution was passed and still zilch. Either the Brits and Fench really are waiting for Qaddaffi to start getting desperate and inflict heavy civilian losses in his haste to try and end this war quickly, or as someone else suggested on another forum, the British and French did not expect Russia and China not to at the very least haggle to get the wording of the resolution watered down.

I must not be the only one to raise eyebrows that such a robustly worded resolution passed first time and probably in record time too (at least for resolutions authorising the use of force).

The fact that nothing yet is probably a sign that the British and French were not expecting it this quickly either.

Now they have a bit of a conundrum on their hands, as they woils be the ones facing all the blame if they do not conduct ground attacks now that the resolution allows it. If they just wanted a no thrills no fly zone and were counting on the Russians and Chinese to water down the wording, they just had the rug pulled from under them and cannot pin the blame on ‘Russian and Chinese hesitancy/delay tactics’ etc if the Rebels still do not win this.

If the Americans are not enthusiastic and the Ango-Franco camp were not expecting to have to conduct a ground support campaign, then this may not turn out to be the silver bullet that kills Qaddaffi everyone hopes for.

Either way, we the British taxpayers now have to share the tab for potentially a long and expensive ground support war when our public finances are already in the crapper. Brilliant.

What more, I cannot see how we are going to provide decent close air support without imbedding operators in the rebel forces. But that seems to be expressly forbidden by the resolution as it made a point about no boots on the ground. Another possible sign that nobody expected the first draft to be passed.

I’m not really sure why some are so “against” the idea of a no-fly zone. It’s not an invasion (aside from airspace-wise), and the point is to limit the amount of damage Gaddafi can do to his own people.

To those who are against it, I’m curious…how does the rest of the world ignore someone using his own air force to bomb civilians? (Yes I’m aware this sort of thing has happened in the past so please let’s get past the inevitable lectures, but the question remains for this particular case…what should be done if not a no-fly zone?)

Well the Libyan air force is not bombing unarmed women and children (or at least not trying to) are they?

The situation on the ground has developed into a full scale civil war, and so far it has been a fairly ‘clean’ war in that it is mainly combatants getting hit by air strikes.

If that counts as bombing civilians, then what has the US and friends been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last decade?

Since this is a civil war, what right does any outside party have in interfering to tip the balance in favor of one side or the other?

How would Americans have felt if some outside force, ironically, like the British and French, came in during the dying stages of the American civil war and took ‘all necessary action’ to protect civilian life to help tip the balance of power for the confederates?

This is a Libyan civil war, and they need to work this out themselves. If enough of Libyans are in support on one side, that side will win. Else if outside forces come in and help one side win over the other, what guarantees does anyone have that the will of the people has been served?

Western reports can hardly be counted as impartial in their interpretation of events on the ground. There are plenty of examples of blatant favoritism.

For example, the rebels have lowered the age limit for recruits to 15. Yes, they are sending 15 year old boys out to the front line, with maybe as little as a few days or even hours of training.

Had Qaddaffi done that, the world media would be full of righteous indignation about him using child soldiers and demanding the ICC indite him as a war criminal. But since its the darlings of the western media that is doing it, there is barely any mention.

Similarly, reporters reporting from towns captured by pro-qaddaffi forces would stand in the middle of huge crowds all cheering Qaddaffi, and stress how people who felt differently would not dare raise their voice. But did they think people who support Qaddaffi would dare to come out and say so when the rebels took a town?

Yet we hear reports of pro-Qaddaffi forces apparently ambushing journalists deep in rebel held territory. So, is that evidence that hatred for Qaddaffi is not as universal and loyalty to him enforced by a gun as the media would wish us to believe, or evidence that the media would blame Qaddaffi for all of Libya’s ills whether he deserve it or not?

Has any of the army of journalists operating in Libya even tried to find out what has happened to captured pro-Qaddaffi soldiers and officers? All we have are images of them being led away and often with the rebels trying to stop even that being recorded. Anyone wanna bet all those prisoners are all fine and well singing happy songs in a POW camp?

When you base your decisions on such biased and distorted reporting, and decide to use military force as a result, there is a real risk you are getting yourself into something you do not fully understand and may get a result you do not want.

There are strong signs that there are tribal distinctions between the sides, and if that is the case, you may well be helping one tribe achieve domination over another. If that is the case, you won’t get a happy cuddly democracy out of this at the end. Just a different boot stamping on a different face.

But hey, as long as the oil flows, who cares right? Just ask the peaceful protestors in Bahrain.

Sorry to be quoting the BBC, but our ambassador to the UN was saying that we had made ‘contingency plans’ before hand.

Would they move the equipment to foreign bases, before hand, or simply shift it to Brize with a C-17 ready to go?

As for the no10 cautioning….would be wise not to alert the Libyans surely?

What are the Libyans going to do even if the knew where and when the British and French will strike? They have nothing able to threaten a Tornado let alone Typhoons and Rafales unless the pilots were being stupid.

Assuming that the NFZ is approved by the UN and the resolution allows for “all necessary means” to be used to protect civilians in rebel-held areas, the incumbent regime has serious problems.

The resolution has already been passed 10-0.

The only question that remains now is how far the Brits and French will go to aid the rebels.

I have a horrible suspicion, which I really hope is wrong, that all this ‘air strikes are expected within hours’ talk is a bluff designed to put Qaddaffi under pressure so he launches heavy handed attacks soon to try and end the war before western air power starts to play a decisive role.

If he does that, civilian casualties will be high and make the case for the British and French to start engaging all his ground forces without drawing too much criticism about being biased.

Well, the resolution just passed with it’s original wording. Air strikes against ground targets are reported to be expected within hours of now.

I wonder if they will bomb the rebels if they advance on qaddaffi controlled population centres again.

I have a feeling this may turn into another Kosovo. Let’s just hope this doesn’t come to pass.

Moving away from politics, why hasn’t there been a follow-on to the Type 052C? Doesn’t the PLAN want more Air Defence Destroyers? Or are there problems with their AEGIS-type radar?

The fact that they are building another 4 should seem to dispel any suggestion that the 052C does not work.

There have been rumors of energy based weapons planned for future destroyers, and some have claimed they may be for the 052D.

Whether there is any truth to that or if its mere fanboy fantasies remains to be seen atm.

There is definitely room for two side bays, but given how long the j20 is these could easily be made long enough to hold bvraams instead of just wvraams as is the case with the f22. What is the assumed length of the j20
for the above configuration?