Any public German data ? >
F-4F vs MiG-21bis(tip75bis) ?
or
F-4F vs tip.15 ?
F-4F vs tip.50 ?
F-4F vs tip.50bis ?
The German reunification was a unique opportunity…
Where are those fine diagrams ?
At least not to hand you pictures or even materials from that time-scale to become a new copyright sign after that. 😎
What is your problem with my published photos on the Net ?
Those are free for you 😉
http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=4602&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
http://www.scramble.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=48713&hilit=mongolia
http://www.scramble.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=54912&hilit=krasnodar
I am one of the few guys on the Net, who publish original, unique photos from the Cold-War era from the other side of the “Fence”.
I like rare, original old slides from interesting places at West also:
http://www.fencecheck.com/forums/index.php/topic,17498.30.html
to become a new copyright sign after that. 😎
If my sign is diisturbing for you, I recommend you >
If you do not have interesting own photos from your military career, take your own research, find some old NVA-LSK pilots, they are Gentlemen with very unique photos and documents.
I am sure it is easy for you(without language barrier) – to ask their old negatives and slides, scan, and publish on the Net.
I will very grateful to you if I can watch those pics on the Net with your copyright logo or with your watermark…:cool:
Be it Robert, R. Szombati, sainz, …., how about a correct question in English at least.
The only reasonable post from you in this topic.
The ‘Real Gentlemen-Style’ :confused:
There was nothing like a Tip50 “bis” in the 70s.
One of your arrogant statements.
You have no any idea about the subtype tip.50bis, But you deny its existence. 😀
Do not forget your declaration if somebody publish some photos and documents of ‘изделие 50Бис’ in the near future….
The MiG-21SMT/Tip 50 was an interim variant to the MiG-21bis/Tip 75.
NATO designation Fishbed K
Less than 300 hundred built in former Gorki between 1971 and 1972.
Equipped with the R-13F-300 before the R-25 became available from 1972 for the bis at first.
The question is ‘изделие 50Бис’ or ‘tip.50bis’ NOT ‘изделие50’ or ‘tip50’ >

Sainz i do not have this book (it is published in Belgrade) but i will try to find it next time.I am not optimist that there will be anything about bell and hook maneuvers becouse these maneuvers were not practiced on YAF MiG-21.
It would be very interesting, to compare the ACT of YuAF with the Soviets & West.
Russian weapons, but YuAF pilots had only conversion training in USSR.
But I am afraid – there are no too many public data on YuAF MiG-21s ACM,ACT 🙁
How about an example or a source to follow?! (scan or link)
How about any real source of WP’s ACT in the 70’s ?
Not top-secret(then) training documents, only simple real data from pilot logbooks > flight hours, % of ACT sorties/month, tactics, personal reports from WP pilots ?…etc.
Sens, You like to say:
There is no longer any shortage of uncensored personal reports from that time. 😉
I like to say – there are NO usable personal reports, documents from that time(public).
Show me any uncensored personal report from a WP pilot, about ACT in the 70’s.
a source to follow?!
You are German. Did you seen ever the logbook of a “first-class” MiG-21 pilot(NVA-LSK) from the 70’s ? All the answers are there…
Not the public rubbish from late 80’s or early 90’s, which was a completely different era.
MiG-19 was primary fighter in the “frontline” in late 50’s only.
In the 50`s the ACT at a VVS fighter unit was completely different than in the 60’s. MiG-19PM different story, MiG-21 came with a new tactic in the early 60’s, and the early 70’s start with a kind of “revolution” in WP’s ACT.
Generalisations with this topic everywhere, always…
Massive statements, far-reaching conclusions always 🙁
Based on ???
Your opinion is full of prejudices.
Based on the very limited public data from that period…
Oh, those Russians…Thay have never realised how potent dogfighter was MiG-19 too …
Typical view…
Most of the VVS pilots who flew on the MiG-19 had WW.II. experience, many fought in Korea, spent hundreds of flight-hours on MiG-15 -17.
Obviously, You did not talk with any of them, you have no any idea what kind of ACT they had.
What do you think ?
Those pilots had only weather-recces, milk-runs on the MiG-19 ?
Did you see mid-70s Soviet AF combat manual for the MiG-21 ever ?
Or the nice album for “exercise 500-series” with fine drawings of the manoeuvres, speeds etc. ?
Of course that I saw them, but I havent seen them in practice.
Really ???
In this case, you can describe here easily the exercises No.500″O”(or No.500) & No.533
One of them is a “very-Russian” exercise while the other is including very similar details like a same ACT-sortie in the NATO.
One of them is famous because of a lot of brutal G’s, while the other is something completely different…
You can train one or few persons to get full capability from aircraft and loose some aircraft and pilots in proces, but to get it into squadron service is another story.
You compromise yourself.
Obviously > you did not see any of these documents.
If you had the chance ever to talk with a VVS MiG-21 pilot(and check his logbook) – who was in the “frontline” with full licence in the 70’s – you must to know, “exercise 500 series” was unit level ACT program in the 70’s.
Furthermore the Soviets handed over this program to the non-Soviet WP airforces from spring of 1972 > thousands of pilots can tell..
You have very hard statements without the knowledge of necessary data…
First-Lieutenant Éva Horváth “Vivi” was the gunner(“WSO”).
Read it. But unfortunatly I have trouble fully understanding sentences like this. 🙂
“As the fighters back to the show probably would have reached a hit, which does not mean that he shot her, and the pilot catapult, but the battle left him.”
\Dan
Probably few hit(s) on the F-15(not on vital part of the airframe), which not kill the Eagle > only damage, but must to go home…
HuAF has nice traditions with helo-hunt back to the Cold-War Era.
The F-15 pilots were in a very comfortable situation with their useful radar, AIM-9X and helmet mounted sights….
Can you imagine a same cat-mouse play MiG-21 vs Mi-24 ?
pic. from my archives – year 1986
In the article:
“US ANG pilot “Claw” had hard times from his pilot friends.
He was gunned by a woman – Éva Horváth “Vivi” ” 🙂
mig-21 manual says that speed should not let to fall bellow 400 km/h,
Manual for the rookies….Viet, Iraqi, Lybian, WP etc… – do not kill them in the first years on the type 😉
Did you see mid-70s Soviet AF combat manual for the MiG-21 ever ?
Or the nice album for “exercise 500-series” with fine drawings of the manoeuvres, speeds etc. ?
“Combat-advices” in the manual vs. all main Western fighter types in the 70s ?
Low-speed combat amendments for the MiG-21SM,SMT when they were rearmed with R-60 ?
….
we should not exaggerate…’hook’ and ‘bell’ ie.’tailslide’ as far as I know perform only Su-27/MiG-29 derivatives…
mig-21 manual says that speed should not let to fall bellow 400 km/h,
Just a small public “fragment” >
http://www.testpilot.ru/review/notes/21_mig21us.htm
” Что бы летчик ни делал: виражи на скорости 230—240 км/ч, зависание до нулевой скорости, энергичный маневр типа «хай джи ролл» («бочка» с высокой перегрузкой) ” >
Probably this manoeuvre was something same from a Syrian pilot in February 1972. >
” зависание до нулевой скорости “
http://translate.google.com/# >
” hovering up to zero speed “
these are not combat maneuvers, at least for today’s air combat….
After 1981 new ACT program started on the -21, in those there were no such manoeuvre.
Also all the exercises from “500-series” were modified, many simplified after ’81(at some WP airforces after ’84).