pobjoy peteIts a load of Bails
No it was Sept 20th and we are waiting for Merlin 70 to give us the test results (unless he is still unconscious)
Oxo donated the stumps to the RAF at the time but no one on here is suggesting that the marks are substantial “dents”.
As any coachbuilder in aluminium will tell you, even a minor indentation will show up once the paint is removed (depending on the lighting)
However this is only a small (but quaint) part of the event; i would rather know what the real cause of the “engine problem” was and no one is going to pay my fare to San Diego to check out the wing.
I was always mildly interested in the “reason” and the location but do not claim to be a “stumpologist” or even watch cricket.
Anyway now we are “bowled over” with confirming the final spot i am happy for our resident boffins to sort out the B…..Stump theory.
As i see it this stems from its time at Halton “circa 1986” that is 27 years after the event (what would be the point of making it up) and it may not have been even noticed until all the paint was removed!! (perhaps there will be a death bed confession from a brat)
pobjoy pete574 “The final solution”
Ok folks time to put this one to bed.
I only have two low res images (background not clear) “due to limitations of pixelation” to work from and can only guess at the time of the day taken.
My guess was; judging by month (Sept) and shadow angles that 574 was lying heading approx s/west and slid across the pitch in a right hand yaw.It would be quite in order for the approach to made with slight sideslip for both view and extra descent/drag control.It is then possible to impact one set of stumps and miss the others but the “wing to stump angle” would be very low therefore giving nearly even spacing.
Taking the best evidence available re the higher ground and trees/buildings in the background i therefore consider the no 1 candidate is the field bordered by Warren Ave and Farnaby Road (botton l/h corner near the “river”).Warren Ave is a continuation of Calmont Road (there are references to OXO and c/rd.)
Of course if i was not 300 miles away i would nip around there to verify this.
As it is this would have been a “tight fit” dead stick in 574 and therefore AVM Maguire did a good job in not making the drama a complete crisis.
In fact this guy deserves some real respect as after taking part in the BOB he then led a depleted Hurricane force against the Japanese in Sumatra even to the extent of defending the airfield with a browning machine gun removed from a wrecked aircraft.He was only captured due to given his seat in the last transport plane out of the combat area in Java to a wounded pilot.His DSO was for leadership and example to fellow POW’S.Read about him on http://www.bbm.org.uk (S/Ldr H J Maguire)
So well done Harold Maguire and 574; both of them real survivors and for making cricket almost exciting !!!
pobjoy pete574 (The Sequel)
Thanks for that JAYCE this gets more interesting by the day/week will get right on to the trail this evening
PP
Not so sure about “The Canal” but there is a river running through the area.
pobjoy peteBiggin Hill Kitchens
You’ll probably have better luck in the Historic Aviation forum….
Is there another one !!!!
pobjoy peteEven Hotter
Well you got there in the end (not quite there yet though) and this is what puzzled me looking at the original image of 574 with the cricketers in the background.
When i looked at the Google image of the same area it did not quite match up.
I then had to check that the original neg had not been printed in reverse (it had not).
Several clues then have to be assembled to solve the problem.
What is now Millwall’s training ground shows a pavillion/club alongside Calmont road 1n 1962 (OS Map sheet 171)
On the opposite side of the road Ambleside and Belgravia did not exist in 1959
We know that “The Times” had a sports ground and “club” at Calmont road.
The “skyline” of the “cricket” image shows mature trees and buildings.
Was the “OXO” ground (opened 1921)on the other side of the road !!!
I am hoping MK12’s other images will help to confirm the (exact) location as i am too far away for a quick recce.
Anyway beats clearing snow away outside.
pobjoy pete574 Nearly There
Your getting warm bazv.Find Calmont road and your even warmer.
Then look on Google map and spot the place.
Much more fun making you work for it.
The jobs not really over until you have stood on the spot again !!!
pobjoy pete574 Not Out
It rather looks like 574’s final landing spot is not a cricket pitch anymore but i will try to get a “now” shot when in the area !!
pobjoy pete“Stumped for info”
I will put this down to a wind up Merlin.Get someone to hit you over the head with a cricket stump (you can strobe it to get the correct speed) and tell me if it hurts (when you wake up).
After this initial test you can try it out on some thin wall aluminium tubing (check with MK12 for spec) and photograph the results for us to see.
I must admit it was very remiss of the RAF not to seal off the area and see what broke the stumps,but they were probably slightly more concerned with tidying up the mess before the BOSS (AOC 11 Group) got to work on Monday morning.
“Fly on the wall scenario monday at 11 Group”
Good morning sir.
Morning SASO have a good day yesterday !
Fraid not sir broke the stumps at the OXO cricket ground.
Good lord have we got to pay for them.
No i think they have gone to AHB for safe keeping.
Thank God for that,By the way where’s 574 this morning.
She’s in the other hangar sir having some work done.
Jolly good i”m taking her over to Kenley for lunch.
She may not be ready until teatime sir.
Why are you looking pale SASO is there something i need to know!!!
pobjoy pete574 and Cricket Pitches
Going to have a rain check on that Adrian have now found evidence of several former company sports grounds in the immediate vicinity and have the “1964 Hangrove Hill Feeling” coming over me.Be in touch PC
pobjoy pete574 and Cricket grounds
Way ahead of you there Sunbeam.
There are several candidates for this location but the most likely is approx 4.5 miles from the threshold of Biggins main runway (Bromley Cricket Ground)
As i recall this was the Sunday after the Biggin “AT HOME” and 574 must have been en-route home after the BOB fly past or on its way there.
Either way if it had been “over London” it would not have reached Bromley so my guess is it was on its way back.
I well remember the press at the time making the most of the usual “old aircraft over London syndrome” and no doubt if it had ended up in Hyde Park it would have been “National news”.
In actual fact there were plenty of potential F/L spaces south of the Thames so the ban on further flights was a bit over the top and i suspect more to do with giving the impression that this was something that could happen again (without warning) rather than investigate the reason.
As this was the second W/up in a few months it no doubt prompted the decision to give her a “ground tour” and with no more fly pasts on the horizon who could argue at the time.
I think we should arrange for her to have some proper canon fairings now and i still cant get over those “ghosts” of the stumps “FANTASTIC”, these threads are a gem of information.
pobjoy peteOXO Cricket Ground
I think Kenley had far more impact on the Battle of Britain than a patch of grass owned by a gravy company.
At least when 574 landed at Kenley the driver had his wheels down !!!
Do not expect me to waste vauable aerial photography weather on sports grounds (probably still there anyway)
pobjoy pete574
Oh well at least she is safe for a while and would no doubt get confused if she went out into all that sunshine.
Amazing re the “stumps” indents, a real historic timewarp, but not so sure about the “canon” fairings which look like water pipes !!
Perhaps someone should send them a couple of real ones or at least a good f/glass copy.
The “pilot” could also benefit from a Lloyd loom chair (which i would donate if i could get it there).
Thanks for the background MK12 and images MRP.
If i knew how to do the “image ” thing would post an up to date photo of Kenley as she is today.
pobjoy peteSlightly related subject
Was at Yeovilton today and had a quick look at the Seafire SX137 which MK12 told me was the same machine used for the Royal Tournament “circa” 1962 after the practice sessions at Kenley (was in camo then).
I saw the practices and the real event but never found out how they had the prop spinning or whether a real engine was in it at the time.
They could have possibly taken the plugs out and spun it up on an electric starter connection (any idea’s!!)
Still a great visit as you can get up close to the wing folds and chunky u/carts.
SX137 looked great rolling across the arena “wings down” prop spinning and plenty of engine sounds from the pa system,it was built by Westlands so has nearly gone full circle.
Skyraider outside Cobham hall looking very sad.
As for 574 she is quite a survivor having had TWO wheels up in 1959 and being used in both Reach for the Sky (Kenley) “i knew there was a connection” and the later BOB film.
I trust she is not getting bored stuck indoors, or do they let her out for a run sometimes.Good luck to her.
pobjoy peteSpitfire Forced Landing Bromley
This accident (1959) prompted the ban of Hurricane and Spitfire Battle of Britain flypasts over London for many years.
The reason for the engine problem was apparently “fuel related” but i have never seen an official report and the ban continued for many years.
However a very well known Spitfire pilot whilst being interviewed on an unrelated issue did happen to mention that the fuel system on that particular mark required the “switching on” of a transfer pump for normal operation and that may not have happened in this case !!!
Stumps went to AHB (may still be there)
SL574 eventually went to Bentley Priory and thence to the states (museum)
pobjoy peteBattle of Britain tour
Should you embark on a trip like this again call in at Kenley near Caterham.
Although the camp area has been part developed with housing the airfield is still complete and not affected by any industrial additions (because it is on protected common land)
In fact it is now possible to walk the “Kenley Trail” around the perimeter track and observe some of the original e-pens from 1940.
The Officers mess is still standing but due for conversion to flats and the Airmans institute and parade ground are complete.
During the week the Surrey Hills Gliding club operate and it is possible to arrange a flight over this historic location where both Croydon and Biggin are easily visible.
Kenley never had quite the public exposure as Biggin but was an important sector airfield and is the only 11 group station that exists in its near original state.
Sign In
