pobjoy peteFire protection
But in this instance half the cowling was missing, so the effectiveness of any fire suppression systems would have been severely compromised.
The only reason the cowling was missing was because it had burnt through.
The whole point of a suppression system is to control the situation early enough to prevent this happening.However in the case of a major component failure that also allows crankcase oil to be torched by the exhaust the “normal” fuel off practice will not suffice to control the situation.It is only because there are relatively few instances of these incidents that the serious consequences are not highlighted.A military trainer will have a different design criteria compared to its civil counterpart and that is why a “bale out” is a real option in dire circumstances.I would think it quite reasonable to be able to provide yourself with some protection if the “approval” regulations were able to cope with this.Radials are great, but they are more prone to “throwing a pot” than other types (for reasons stated in other posts) therefore the consequence of this should be considered in their operation.
pobjoy peteIn Flight Fire
This very sad case has highlighted a situation that is not addressed in the report.
When the aircraft was in normal service use the lack of a suitable fire supression system or agent meant bale out was the ONLY option.
Nowadays with modern lightweight systems and very efficient fire supression agents why is it not possible to retrofit a simple manual system to a historic machine.
The weight penalty would be negliable and the CAA should be able to issue a dispensation (for historic non PT machines) to use a suitably modified system as used on boats and racing cars that would at the very least gain you a few precious extra minutes to either get down or retain control.
Any installation with a “cowling” gives a supression agent a real chance of working to its best ability and when one sees how effective “monex” or a “halon” equivalent is it must be worth looking at as an option.
pobjoy pete615 Squadron
Very much associated with Kenley (and Croydon) pre war and actually went to France with Gladiators before converting to Hurricanes.
Were operating out of Kenley during the famous low level dornier raid there on 18th Aug 1940.
Post war the squadron had to go to Biggin Hill with the jets as the Kenley runway’s were to short.Disbanded in the 50’s.
The science museum Hurricane (L1592) KW-Z (a 615 machine) took off from Kenley on its last operational scramble 18 08 40 and force landed later at Croydon.
The 615 number lives on with 615 VGS (ATC GLIDING) still at Kenley.
Neville Duke the well known Hawker test pilot was one of the post war CO’s.
pobjoy peteKenley Image
The actual location of the Dornier crash at the end of (golf road) is on the image but shows no evidence of any smoke/wreckage/damage.
As this incident was very early on in the raid (within a minute of it starting) it hardly gives any credit to the accuracy of the image.
The smoke issuing on the airfield boundary near to the old Hayes Lane does tie in with reports of a fire there although it seems rather large for a bowser fire.
As far as the rest of the image is concerned, apart from the hangar fire there is little evidence of any other damage especially around the Hayes lane entrance to the camp.
When one looks at the blast pens several have no central bank so that poses an interesting query as to whether the original image for this “final” version was taken whilst the airfield was being updated in early1940.The famous Spitfire in the pen shot clearly shows the central wall on several pens (later to have an earth banks) yet in the raid shot they are not there.
As stated before once an image has been altered there is no real way to know what is real and what is changed.
As a propaganda tool it fails to show how much actual damage was caused and therefore is suspect.
pobjoy peteKenley Photo
Although it would be nice to see an image with better resolution it is quite possible that this image has utilised an earlier shot and has had the “smoke” added.
The real query has to be in what detail CAN be seen or shown (ie the blast pens and camp area) and that does not add up to the state of things on the 18th.
It is quite likely that there was too much smoke over the target for a good propaganda image therefore they have made one up to suit.
With nearly 200 bombs on target including the landing ground there would have been far more evidence of that in a real recon image.
I would love to have a better res image (pathfinder) and will gladly swap that for one i have taken recently (pm me please).You could then post that on the forum for others to view.
Well done for giving Kenley some exposure (that it righly deserves) it is quite surprising how much can be seen despite the “developments” taking place.
pobjoy peteKenley Photo
I suspect the whole image has been “enhanced” and amalgamated as there are many features that do not add up.
The fire at the northern sector is possibly an oil bowser (there is some evidence of that in the accounts) but it is not the Dornier that crashed in Golf road as that location is some distance away.
The “e pens” seem to have changed to C pens and there is little evidence of damage in the main camp area near the Hayes Lane entrance and where the main casualties were.
Once an image has been altered and recopied there is nothing that can confirm what is original and therefore it has to be treated with caution as a historical record.
pobjoy peteRemote Hardstandings
When we were busy getting Perranporth back into shape (and fighting the local council off at the same time) a local military trust came up one day for a look around with a good selection of ww2 jeeps and other assorted machines.
Having been shown the blast pens and underground battle hq they were slightly disappointed that we did not have an aircraft gun butts on site.
Using this as an excuse to get in more “jeep” time i took the convoy (about 10 trucks) down to a remote “pan handle” that faced the sea and had no obvious purpose.
Explaining that this “MAY” have been used for testing guns was good enough for a detector to be produced and within a couple of minutes piles of 20mm canon case were being produced.
This provided quite enough excitement for one day so i held back on the “buried merlins joke”.
It was only last year that i came across a complete spigot mortar site on Kenley airfield (in a wooded area now private)
pobjoy petePorteath Prop
Did you get the images taken last week andy
Pobjoy
pobjoy peteBattle of Britain “or how the media see it”
Most people who are on this or similar forums will always have an “issue” with how the BoB subject is portrayed and how much expertise is brought in to check on facts.
The Battle of Britain was decided “like most other battles” on who makes the “least” mistakes; however having the best intergrated air defence system in being at the time led by very capable commanders at least helped to mitigate the situation where our airfields (and op’s rooms) were a legacy from a peacetime roll and very vulnerable to attack.
If we had swopped aircraft the result would have been the same as it was the flawed strategy of the German command and lack of understanding of our system and resolve that made it an impossible task to achieve.
Jeffrey Quill summed it up well when he wrote to the effect that “The corrupt Nazi regime led by the products of corruption failed to understand how it would be when they came up against a well designed system led by capable professionals chosen for experience and ability and charged with defending their homeland”.
Dowdings overall planning and organisation plus Churchills defiance was the right combination at the time and the line was held.
pobjoy peteSalt Corrosion Prop
The corrosion process really gets going when the oxygen gets to it.
Its basically try to revert to its original state. As this goes on “under the skin” it is sometime before it can “explode” into a powder state. Exfoliation and intergranular corrosion is quite common down here with the salt air acting as a catalyst.
Items that have been “rolled or extruded” are particularly affected and the effects quite dramatic.
Anything brought out of the sea should be flushed with fresh water (left in a river or lake ) before anything else is done.
Anyway it can certainly be helped to survive with some relativly simple treatment and an annual check up.
PC
pobjoy petePortreath Prop “Memorial”
Fear not folks a rescue mission will be mounted by the Cornish Confederate Airforce and we will stabilise the situation if suitable permission is given.
I will let Barry do the negotiations and a donation of ACF50 would be nice.
However this prop must have been recovered from the sea so the corrosion would have set in long before it became a memorial.
At the same time should there also be a mention of its history and significance.
Pobjoy
Get on to Transair Andy for an ACF donation (large container) good PR for them and the product.PC
pobjoy peteHurricane Memorial
I am all up for a Hurricane memorial at Kenley common.The most complete surviving BOB airfield “still in use”.
There are e pens still there for a location and the City of London (the owners) are making the place more “visitor friendly” every year.
Anyway the Hurricane is too proud to worry about such things, it knows it did the main bit when required and that was after giving the Germans a taste of what was to come in France.
The Hurricane was never overshadowed by the Spitfire just a victim of wartime hype.
The Hurricane’s were producing “aces” in France before the Spitfires had started.
Pobjoy
pobjoy petePortreath Prop “Memorial”
The plot thickens as they say.
At great personal cost and loss of brownie points for NOT cleaning rayburn and clearing leaves i nipped over to the north coast for a reccy (dog walk my dear).
The prop on display (as posted) is well past the ACF50 stage and looks just like a trawled one (without the barnacles)
If you (Andy) pm me with an email contact the images will be with you today.
Am not familiar with the DH prop set up so not sure if they have counterweights like an american equiv, but the reduction gear is “merlin” size but could also be similar to a radial fit.
The local (Redruth) RAFA organised the memorial so will be the font of knowledge on this.When you have the images feel free to post them here.
PC Pobjoy
Having compared the reduction gear with a merlin drawing i am not convinced this is the same, but as it is damaged that is not conclusive.
The memorial shows no details of the “props” history but i seem to remember the local paper covering a “Portreath overun” that was recovered some time ago.
If it has been there for ten years without any attention it could well have got to this stage in our atmosphere.PC
pobjoy petePortreath Prop
I have to say that the picture looks more like a “trawled up” prop rather than a painted one left outside.
Will pop over later and see if i can get an up to date photo of its condition.
Ten years on a Cornish cliff top is nearly as bad as being in the sea.
The Perranporth prop is a wooden two bladed unit (possibly Anson)
It was quite common to see all sorts of props in the yard at Newlyn Harbour having being trawled up and left around usually with bits of reduction gear on them.
PC
pobjoy petePortreath Prop
If you want to actually STOP the corrosion then it has to be ACF50.
The downside is that it is very expensive but is does work and can be painted over afterwards.
Is this a DH prop.
If you need a hand Barry i have a small trailer set up with gen/comp to blast the atomised spray into the surface.20 min later it could be painted
PC
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