FedaykinI totally agree in all respects Jonesy but I can shake the opinion that the Australians won’t purchase a Japanese design, I think they will go for the riskier solution of scaling up either a French, German or Spanish design. There will be plenty of talk about learning from the mistakes of the Collins program but it won’t change the outcome…we just have to hope there is better project management and a better understanding of what can and can not be done. The biggest problems were totally avoidable with Collins if they had taken some lower risk decisions for example model testing of the revised hull design or using an off the shelf CMS. I am not advocating for a scaled up design per say but I do think it is the more likely route that will be taken. It is nice to see that they are at least talking to the Japanese but the initial requests for information have gone out to DCNS, HDW and Navantia with particular interest in the HDW 216 design. To be fair to HDW at least they have experience of scaling up submarines in the form of they Type 209 (ironically a competitor in Sea 1114).
FedaykinHmmm Jonsey whilst I agree the Japanese SSK is a perfect fit for the Australian Navy and the barriers against export have been lifted I will still be surprised if it actually got selected. I guessing a Japanese submarine will have a price tag that is less then generous. Also I would think up-scaling another design will result in more work for Australian yards which is always a vote winner.
FedaykinIndeed it is strange how that works. I shoot here in the UK and I noticed a video posted by an American about among other things British gun controls. By in large they were wrong and I posted some corrections in the comment section. What surprised me was the number of comments from British people who didn’t know how the law around shooting works in the UK. For example pistols were not banned in 1997 they were restricted beyond the means of the normal public to have a good reason to own them. You can have Black powder, cartridge for humane dispatch and historic cartridge (section 7.3 for research and testing – something the anti gun lobby haven’t noticed) if you can prove good reason.
Oh and I have an image in my mind Swerve of your wife saying to you in Japanese “has somebody said Japanese arms exports are banned on that silly forum of yours again” as you slowly smack your head against the computer screen with a slight foamy froth on your lips.
FedaykinOh too late I was going to warn you Wanshan that saying Japan can’t export arms will only send Swerve over the edge foaming at the mouth!
FedaykinActually this is quite an exciting period, IAC1 is starting to come together and China indigenous carrier might well get the reveal in the not too distant future. For carrier fans these will be interesting times… I will be curious to see how bombastic and patriotic the Chinese and Indian fanboy videos about their respective new carriers will be.;)
Fedaykin… and, compared to India, their (the Chinese) intent was also different i.e. study her and her plan and use the information in development of a domestic carrier design.
Yep, her role is becoming far clearer now. In effect she is a combat capable training and research vessel. I’m fairly confident now that the indigenous carrier is in production and will be fitted with steam catapults for use with the Y7 AEW type and a yet unseen catapult compatible fighter. Varyag allows them to get to grips with basic carrier operations with a STOBAR configured vessel and fighter that are a known equation. The difficult bit is always landing and she is perfect to build up skills in that area, once they go CATOBAR the transition for the pilots will be simplified. That they went through the bother of fitting her out with their latest point defence missiles and guns shows they wanted to experiment with her defensive fit in support of the indigenous program. If they have fitted new boilers and propulsion plant she will also serve as a test bed in that area as well. The nice thing for the China Navy is that once the indigenous carrier is brought into service Varyag can still serve a fleet role.
FedaykinYes, it’s very different, but still similar enough to be considered part of the Flanker family.
Yes, it is a derivative. I’d also just point out that almost your entire post was based on looks, especially funny when you consider you describe such comparisons based on appearance only as “armchair” analysis methods!
But I agree, there’s no need to go offtopic any further.
No no no that’s just silly!
The T-50 is certainly not a Flanker derivative…for an aircraft to be part of the same family it has to share a significant proportion of the base airframe. The T-50 airframe is a clean sheet of paper design, in effect it is the first step in a new family of aircraft. It does share systems and components with the Su-27 family for reasons expediency and commonality for example the engine. Side by side the T-50 is a smaller aircraft then the Su-27 and configured differently when it comes to flying surfaces.
Now the Su-35 is a member of the Su-27 as it is based on the same core airframe, for that matter the SAC J-15 is a member of the Flanker for the same reason.
FedaykinNo doubt Varyag was utterly gutted of wiring and pipe work going on some of the early photos of her at Dalian (I am also of a view that they put new boilers and machinery in when she was dry docked). There were quite a few pictures of scrap material piled high on the dockside before the refit started in earnest.
FedaykinIndeed lots more. What has to be factored in with Varyag is the Chinese were prepared to burn a vast amount of money to get her going. Then again Dalian shipyard is better equipped then Sevmash for the refit work as it has proper dry dock facilities and gantry cranes.
FedaykinYeap those carrier actions would soon expose any fatigue or failures in the aircraft.
Plus the RCAF will probably need them to maintain their exisiting fleet of F-18’s untill the F-35A is able to replace them.
I concur, they might of not seen any trap cycles but they have had a long hard life operating up in the Arctic circle. The Canadians were having to put them through a Centre Barrel Replacement (CBR) program as it is:
http://dspace.dsto.defence.gov.au/dspace/bitstream/1947/4093/1/DSTO-TR-1426%20PR.pdf
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f18-hornets-keeping-em-flying-02816/
The idea they could be switched to carrier operations without significant overhaul and associated cost when there is the simpler solution of getting Super Hornets off the USN or Rafale off the Aeronavale is nonsensical!
FedaykinOops put it into general aviation by mistake – can a mod pop it into the navy section?
FedaykinI wouldn’t say closed for business, the UK is never going to be competitive with Asian yards when it comes to churning out container ships and missed the boat when it comes to the cruise ship boom. The UK can build good quality warships on the other hand. The main issue is (starting with the Type 42 and 22 class) the UK has been building very high end designs wrapped around expensive and unique weapon systems. In the days of the Type 12 Leander class we were building ships that were far more attractive to foreign customers. Foreign navies want flexible designs that are modular enough to allow them to tailor the fit out to their purse. Its hardly any surprise the MEKO class cleaned up in the international market. The critical matter for UK ship building is getting Type 26 right, it has to be modular and good enough for role to be attractive to foreign buyers…it mustn’t be complicated with all sorts of untested kit or blue sky “warship of the future concepts”!
I would love it if the UK was competitive in building this class of support ship but it isn’t going to be the case, successive governments ensured that with the starving of funding and we can’t get around the fact that Asian yards are cheaper. In the end this deal makes BMT designs far more attractive with the back up of a South Korean yard and the licence fees they would get will be welcome. British PLC will still get £150 million in associated contracts doing the high end technical stuff and the RFA will get desperately needed vessels more then likely on time and on budget.
FedaykinThey’ve replaced the Tornado F3 so far. Next up are their F-15C/D (30 years old now), then the Tornado GR (recently upgraded to about GR4 level, & 30+ years old when they retire). I reckon Tiffies will replace the F-15C/D, with the GR4 clones replaced by the F-15E+ they’re buying.
OK in this I will concede they are reasonably old but I bet the mileage aint great!:D
FedaykinGoing for CATOBAR is a real win for the Aeronavale! At the moment when CdG lays up for an overhaul the Aeronavale has to go through all the hassle of deploying to America for operations off an American carrier. When the QE class comes on-line they could deploy direct from Toulon with some tanker support.
For the RN it means the deck of the QE class will be kept busier with French guests which will help currency for the crew.
FedaykinIf it is a lease there is utterly no point spending money integrating ASRAAM and AMRAAM. As Swerve says bring forward METEOR integration and in the interim use MICA from French stocks. Exactly the same would go for Super Hornet albeit UK AMRAAM stocks could be used.
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