They certainly will work out a face saving solution in respect of those F35B. Also the Ski Jump built for F35B tests wont go for waste as the Italians and Spanish need it.

Yes the Janes report was those twelve pilots depending on prior experience will do a full CAT-1 or CAT-2 syllabus on the Goshawk and Hornet. Thats day and night traps and Cat shots. Some were also going to fly Marine corp AV-8B which tells me the navy for at least the last year has been hedging its bets in respect of CATOBAR vs STOVL whatever government won the last election.

Those 12 pilots are now critical to maintain a cadre of experience within the FAA for the next few years.

Wonder when they announce that the three F35B ordered are no longer required, I presume Lock Mart will happily entertain an order swap considering it still means Lightning are being built.

Take no notice of these ‘mothballing/selling’ stories. What matters is they are both being built. The RN will let the current ‘here today, gone tomorrow’ crop of ne’er do well politicians believe whatever they like, because ten years from now they won’t be the ones making the descisions. The Navy knows for the next ten years the whitehall battles will be dominated by the Pongoes and the Crabs, so they have set their sights on 2020 onwards. And if you think that after all they have sacrificed to get the two carriers, they will meekly let one or both go after completion, you don’t know the RN very well…;):cool:

Indeed thats very much my opinion as well, the carriers construction was saved by the very tight termination clauses built into the contract now to my mind the navy needs to plan for the future regardless of the mothballing/selling stories.

The critical issue now is putting together a credible plan to maintain a core fixed wing pilot capability. Alas they will lose some pilots who will decide to leave the service but some will probably go to the US to support the testing program of the F-35C which does tie into the recent reports that a cadre of FAA pilots were training in the US which makes sense if that is the plan. They can probably swing some slots with US fleet squadrons and Aeronavale as well for other pilots.

After that the Royal Navy will probably have to effectively start from scratch in a few years time by inducting new pilots who will go forward for training in the US. That can be put off for many years (at least 2016/17). Then reform a NAS with a mix cadre of new pilots and the ones who have been kept otherwise occupied for the next few years. Also they should be able to swing some experienced exchange pilots with the USN and Aeronavale who can help instill skills with the new pilots.

Thats the kind of plan the navy now needs to put foward to ensure momentum and keep the RAF out of the equation.

For the moment the airforce will use F16, looking at the rest of the list:

F15 to few left and too important to be used.

F35 maybe in the future but I wonder if it is an effective use of them.

F/A18E airforce has tried as hard as it can to avoid inducting the F/A18.

F22 no chance, to few and far too maintenance intensive.

I think you are missing another choice, the airforce and Thunderbirds do what every other major airforce do when it comes to aerobatic teams and use a trainer.

For the USAF the T38 or whatever type they induct in the future as a trainer. Cheaper to operate and perfectly suitable for the the role.

Not according to the SDSR.

It clearly says QE will be delayed to allow her to be completed as cat & trap. It also says that one carrier will be placed in extended readiness, allowing the possibility of rotation with the active carrier, or regeneration if we ever need two. Unless the 2015 review decides to sell one, of course. 🙁

Might explain the inordinately long delay.

Thanks for the Info Swerve, been on a business trip to Plymouth (I see the irony considering the SDSR going on at the moment) for the last two days followed by the trip to London in the car this evening for another three days of different meetings with different customers…a week in hotels oh joy!;) so I haven’t been able to keep up with the details except for what is on Radio 4 whilst on the M4!

Well making QE CATOBAR pushes everything cost wise to the right which makes sense for the bean counters…

The key question is what is the Navies plan to keep core skills alive with their fighter pilots and deck personel during the hiatus?! Whilst pilots can exchange with the US Navy and Aeronavale it is a rather long gap.

There is also another story here as well and that is the Tornado GR4 replacement. OSD for GR4 is 2025ish and whilst the RAF is all UAV at the moment I still think they will want a manned replacement at least in part. The only realistic manned solution available in 2025 will be F35 which might lead to a win win situation for Navy and RAF. If the RAF can swing F35C they get a GR4 replacement which fits into an already established logistics chain and the Navy gets the surge capacity for the second carrier.

As Jonesy has pointed out Sharkey Ward is hardly unbiased when it comes to his views on the RAF!

As for the GR3 contribution to the Falklands Jerry Pooks book “RAF Harrier Ground Attack, Falklands” very much paints a different picture as pointed out in the synopsis:

During the Falklands war Jerry Pook, a pilot in No.1(F) Squadron RAF, flew air interdiction, armed recce, close-air-support and airfield attack as well as pure photo-recce missions. Most weapons were delivered from extreme low-level attacks because of the lack of navigation aids and in the absence of Smart weapons. The only way he could achieve results was to get low down and close-in to the targets and, if necessary, carry out re-attacks to destroy high-value targets. Apart from brief carrier trials carried out many years previously there had been no RAF Harriers deployed at sea. The RAF pilots were treated with ill-disguised contempt by their naval masters, their professional opinions ignored in spite of the fact that the RN knew next to nothing about ground-attack and recce operations. Very soon after starting operations from the aircraft carrier HMS Hermes the squadron realised that they were considered as more or less expendable ordnance.

The GR3 squadrons had a significant amount of experience with ground attack and liason with ground forces in respect of CAS because of the time spent in Germany waiting to fight Ivan. Rather naively they assumed when they got onto the ship that the navy brass would happily allow them to sort out ground attack tasking etc…

And that is the aspect I find curious as well Seahawk, drop the Harrier and get F35B is illogical whilst F35C is logical in that scenario.

Also its worth noting a number of Fleet Air Arm pilots are in the US now training with the US Navy. In effect are US fleet squadrons going to have some RN guests during the capability holiday?

The first to go are the K’s and they are utterly worn out due to them being run on beyind their intended OSD and supporting operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.

There are already significant questions about their safety due to wear and age so they are more then likely going straight for scrap.

As for the J’s they are also being worked hard so I find it hard to see them being transfered to the SAR and maritime patrol role. The J’s are already significantly exceeding their planned annual useage rates and the general consensus is they won’t meet their OSD without extensive structural overhaul.