Fedaykin,

Not with BAE

Beg to differ reports say Bae Systems and UK gov rather then EADS.

Here’s the latest….
WASHINGTON (CNN) — President Barack Obama put on hold an order for a fleet of new helicopters that will cost at least $11 billion, his spokesman told CNN Tuesday.

“The president talked to the secretary of defense, and I think as he said yesterday to Sen. (John) McCain, we don’t need any new helicopters at the White House,” Robert Gibbs said on CNN’s “American Morning.”

Asked if that meant the order was being put on hold, Gibbs said: “That’s exactly what he talked to the secretary about.”

“Your (proposed new) helicopter is now going to cost as much as Air Force One,” the presidential airplane, McCain said. “I don’t think that there’s any more graphic demonstration of how good ideas … have cost taxpayers an enormous amount of money.”

The price tag for the proposed new fleet of 28 helicopters has virtually doubled to more than $11 billion over the last six years. Each helicopter in the fleet would reportedly cost around $400 million.

Obama suggested Monday he would put the order on hold.

“I’ve already talked to (Defense Secretary Robert) Gates about a thorough review of the helicopter situation. The helicopter I have now seems perfectly adequate to me,” a smiling Obama said to a room of laughing congressional, corporate and community leaders.

“I think it is … an example of the procurement process gone amuck, and we’re going to have to fix it,” he added.

In a different story, they quote a L-M spokesman who says …”we can delivcer helicopters within budget based on whatever specifications the Navy wants” ….in other words, the Navy’s going to leave out all the expensive stuff so the helicopter doesn’t cost as much as a 747.
In the end they’ll have a EH-101 with about the same comm capabilities as the Sea King.
In other words, they should have bought the smaller-cheaper S-92 to begin with and they wouldn’t have been as temped to gold plate the program.

Sense reigns!

I think your right they will get EH101 with Sea King comms fit, too much money has been spent already to just can the program.

sferrin,

I think the “better” aircraft in this context might apply the same way Israeli electronics on the F-35 would be “better”: Better in its systemic position and fitting, for a variety of reasons not immediately related to raw performance.

One on one, I’d bet my money on the F-22. But looking at defense budgets, required width of operations, and expected adversarial forces, the Eurofighter might be “better” for its user countries. No matter how good a single plane is, you are always going to need a specific number of them to cover a theater. And if the plane is too expensive to accommodate the necessary numbers in your given budget, it’s just not an option.

Other than that, I found the article by Mr. Kopp unconvincing. One single source given during all his wild claims, with a sole foot note. He doesn’t cite cost sources, performance data sources, or even political sources for his characterization of future Russian geopolicy. Also, the notoriously difficult and fluctuating effectiveness of electronic warfare and support structure is completely put aside in favor of just kinetic performance and radar range versus detectability.

Given the way Kopp treats the F-22, I wouldn’t let him near one in a dark room and with a tub of lube in his hand.

Ughh Carlo Kopp!!!:rolleyes:

The second I started to read the article I knew it had to be him and low and behold I click the link and his name is there.

This report has nothing to do with him having ANY kind of concern for the RAF and Fleet Air Arm but rather a continuing of his pointless project of trying to persuade the Australian MOD to buy F22 regardless of it not being for sale! I wish he would drop this drivel and devote his time to other projects.

Any F22 purchase would cause problems for a Eurofighter Tranche three purchase, a type which is deemed necessary and competative by our own air force (I know that is debated) and give us no local production thus shafting our own aerospace sector.

As for a naval F22….stroll on! Who pays for it then Mr Kopp? The US navy is happy with the Super Hornet and the soon to be inducted UCAV. So somehow out of our limited defence budget he wants us to fund navalisation of a highly expensive fighter like the F22 with no benefit to our own industry.

But according to Mr Kopp we need F22 to save us from the Russian bear…I think you will find we have or already purchasing is more then enough in respect to that threat.

Maybe it can have a dogfight with the RAF at 90 Hawk…:D

I would be surprised about Oman considering they have been in deep negotiations with Bae Systems over Eurofighter.

Just curious how good would the Sepecat Jaguar have been at air to air/dogfighting.

Given that they are usually considered underpowered with the Adour with 8,040lb max thrust what would have been the ideal power.

Small target and fairly agile, certainly underpowered as you say but the late RAF variant had more poke as does the Indian version.

In air to air combat the French version was probably nothing much to write home about as it was a fairly orphan type in their fleet with a basic Magic capability. On the other hand the RAF fleet before they were retired had a helmet mounted sight and ASRAAM capability so were certainly potent close in. I’m sure I read somewhere that an RAF Jaguar got a kill on a Typhoon in an exercise somewhen.

Interesting little bit of trivia……

The E-3 is the only aircraft currently in RAF service capable of using BOTH methods of AAR – boom and hose-and-drogue.

Or – at least they are fitted for such – I’m not sure the crews are current on both ??

Ken

They are current on both and actually prefer tanking off the boom (I have heard), easier to park the large aircraft behind the tanker and allow it to do the fiddly job of hooking up also a faster fuel transfer.

What restrictions are these that dont allow us to buy the refueling pods for the A400?

And why does it preclude us from purchasing a refueling capability for our carriers?

The contract stipulates that all refueling needs for the MOD have to be met by the PFI consortium in effect disallowing the RN or RAF to purchase their own capabilty. Leaving us with the crazy situation of purchasing a400 which are plumbed to tank from the factory but also not not being able to buy the pods. The a400 would be a far better choice for the Falklands station then the a330, it has a similar fuel offload as the VC10 and would ensure that an a330 isn’t tied up.