Thanks Tempest414, those figures really make point nicely! The M-346 and Yak-130 performance figures are very similar to Hawk and notably inferior on some key points along with the issue of maintaining two rather then one engine. As for the T-50 its ability to attain a higher top speed and climb faster means it really sacrifices range or hours in the air.
Already 29 users! That’s a surprise – especially when you compare it with the A-10. In fact, there are even more users of the Su-25 than the F-16…
Good point, and an important distinction to make – to clarify the definition of “the most widely used.”
I think lots of Su-25 were inherited by various republics when the USSR broke up. It is very solid, low maintenance and cheapish to run so I can see the attraction. A fair few second hand examples have been procured in Africa and Peru is a notable operator.
Yes it is…as there is schools ard the world that don’t teach any mathematics, physics or even history…
Don’t take me wrong. Hawk is a fantastic aircraft for its time and there is no any aviation enthousiast that won’t like its perfect shapes. But it is an old platform that wld be even older in 30 years and has only a single engine. And tht is only the basis of any sound raisoning.
Well I don’t know what point you are making with the first line so lets park that one shall we.
As for suggesting that because the Hawk was launched over thirty years ago and has a single engine it is a sound reasoned explanation of your opinion that it is no longer a valid LIFT type does not stand up to scrutiny.
A Hawk built now bares little resemblance to a Hawk built thirty years ago (and it should be noted old Hawks are still used as an effective LIFT type – have a talk to the Indian students who transitioned from RAF Hawk T1 to the Su-30MKI or the Finnish airforce with their modernised examples), as already pointed out do we dismiss the capabilities of the C130J based on the fact that it shares a lineage back to an aircraft designed in the early 1950’s? Of course not that is just plain silly. So the Hawk has a single engine, so what? so does the T-50. Are you saying the T-50 is not suitable for the lift role due to it only having a single engine? Of course not that would be absurd! Two engines means twice the maintenance, if a single engine is enough for the aircraft to for fill its primary role then it is a perfectly reasonable solution. The key thing about a LIFT type is does the performance give enough workload to transition pilots to larger and faster types? Whilst Hawk is not Supersonic it is no slouch, it can even go Supersonic in a dive not that is particularly needed (if at all) in a LIFT Syllabus. With its modern cockpit simulating the environment of a modern fighter the performance is high enough to give an appropriate level of challenge to a student. Barrelling down the Mach Loop in a Hawk is certainly going to give a student the sweats and give a good enough introduction to the skills required for a student to move onto a type like Typhoon. Being able to go Supersonic or giving greater manoeuvrability to a type which is already highly manoeuvrable with a modern avionics package adds nothing to the training and actually increases the risk of early wash out. Training pilots is expensive and washing them out when have reached the LIFT part of the syllabus is not cost effective. Training on the Hawk is built around graduated increases in difficulty and nurturing of pilots, slinging them in a higher performing fighter trainer is not always the best idea. Have a look at the image and video below then consider the pressures on the student, they have a cockpit with displays that match the type they will transfer to and a performance high enough to stretch them:

Now look at this video of Typhoon going through the Mach Loop, a far higher performing type but it shares a similar cockpit environment to Hawk. The Hawk allows a graduated step up to that type:
The Hawk is still selling well and BAE Systems don’t plan to stop producing it for the foreseeable future. Now BAE Systems could decide to build a lets say Hawk T3 with a highly composite airframe and a down rated EJ200 to push it through the sky (many have argued that idea myself included) but would it offer a significant advantage for BAE Systems to do it. Well considering it is still selling well clearly not. Also a conventional aluminium airframe with some composites and a small FADEC equipped Turbofan like the Adour have their advantages! It is significantly cheaper to maintain! Excluding the Hawk-200 series it is a trainer not a fighter! It has to do long hours with often heavy handed students. The reason why jets like the T-50 or the M346 are more like a fighter is both manufacturers have an eye on the light fighter market something BAE Systems has pretty much given up on.
I remember what one of my Uni lecturers told me many years ago, “It is not always about the newest and fastest, often the best is the thing which meets the minimum requirements and is good enough!” Now that was a long reply with no malice intended as I have a hunch that you are young and eager to learn, consider it for a while.
EELightning is the American Pianist and Composer Paul Weston?! Awesome!
But he died in 1996? Arrrgrhhhh! EELightning is either a Vampire or a Zombie!
But what role is the PC-21 intended for? Is it replacing or complimenting the Alphajet or is it an acknowledgement that retiring their EMB-312 Tucano was a mistake? Are they going the Swiss route and going for a Turboprop and simulator based LIFT Syllabus? I find it all rather bemusing and I think BAE Systems along with the British government should be putting every effort into pushing Hawk as an ironically partially French solution to their Alphajet replacement needs!
Very interesting point that the Hawk already has significant French content, France adopting the same type and even same model of Hawk then the RAF could have significant benefit for both countries. As well as the economic benefit to French industry it would be a useful extension of our defence agreement, resources could be pooled between both countries offering cost savings for both. Considering it is pretty much a software change to adapt the displays to support LIFT onto the Rafale the benefits of adopting Hawk are interesting to ponder. A further extension of pilot exchange could be looked at with instructors and students moving between both countries to make best use of the local facilities. Down the line the cost of updating a common variant Hawk fleet could also be shared between both countries. It also means France can accelerate the run down of their legacy Alphajet fleet by working with the UK, could also be an affordable opportunity for the UK to wind down and replace the T1 fleet by lumping a further Hawk T2 procurement alongside production for France.
Also, buying some Hawks and pretends in 2013 that it is a LIFT asset is just ridiculous (BAe wld do a better work converting the Hawk to a BJ and stop trying to sell it as a mil plane). But you can expect that once more Eu (Fr here) would turn its back to commune-sense (and the world) again.
Frankly that is one of the most absurd things I have ever seen written in a long time! The Hawk is very much still a relevant LIFT asset and many airforces plan to use it as such for decades to come. BAE Systems expect to keep the line open for many more years and further sells are expected. The Hawk is a massive sales success for BAE Systems and continues to win contracts, trying to sell it to the civilian market as you suggest would be ridiculous! People in the civilian market who fancy a fast jet type tend to go for types like the L29 or L39 second hand.
As a training system Hawk is proven and very modern, just because it isn’t supersonic or lacks stealth or post stall manoeuvrability is immaterial to its primary role. Heck even the USN and USMC plan to use the T-45C in the role for years to come!

I dunno, that Gurkha who beheaded that Taliban chap a few years back was pretty, er, ruthless. Can’t say I was upset about it though.
Reminds me of this video footage of an officer explaining to a group of disappointed Gurkha’s that the Argentines had surrendered, the Gurkha’s never actually saw combat with Argentine soldiers the closest being at the receiving end of some 155mm. Not that you would think that if you read some of the web articles that come out of Argentina, surprising the amount of stories about combat with blood crazed Gurkha’s and SAS that come up! It has slipped into the national conciousness of Argentina along with the myth that they damaged HMS Invincible.
Aft Island arrives Rosyth:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/final-piece-iconic-hms-queen-1975071

Let us be objective here, the early Harriers were hardly much better than that.. If it wasn’t for the MDD developing the Harrier II, the all-British Harriers were hardly something to write home about when it comes to combat payload and/or range.
But they did have a payload and range even if it was limited in comparison to the Harrier II, GR3 was carrying LGB and wing tanks along with the cannon in 1982. The Yak-36 and earlier Yak-38 had pretty much ZERO payload and gained the name “Foremast defence fighter” amongst Russian pilots.
One thing I have just noticed the Chinese have designed the waistcoats to be very similar to the American ones. Notice the similar fastenings and grey patches on the shoulders! Obviously vital features in the LSO role.
On a serious note I would be careful drawing any conclusions about the LSO platform blast deflector, the camera lens can easily distort relative distances between objects.
Ummmm the Yak-38 was certainly the second VSTOL fighter to see serious service but the word “best” even preceded by the words “second” should no way be associated with it!
Another interesting report, RN/RAF aircraft handlers are starting to deploy on USN carriers: