SnowmanRE: bye bye England
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-06-02 AT 03:08 PM (GMT)]Hi Kev,
I hope you are right in your view about hooligans… I really do! But this general lack of respect for others is becoming a worryingly regular feature these days. New neighbours have just moved in next door to me and have shown a total disregard for people around them. I live on a fairly quiet, respectable working-class, residential street and we have had no end of trouble with them so far. (That’s one thing I don’t miss at the moment!).
When we teach kids (and so-called adults) that it is cool to behave badly and be as low as you want, it’s little wonder they start believing it, I think…
SnowmanRE: bye bye England
Firstly, Ja, you mention incidents involving French supporters. I must say if anything’s happened, it has escaped my notice. Would you care to elaborate, please? By and large, supporters of the French national side are not renowned for their bad behaviour.
Secondly, Mongu, I’m not sure there is a hatred of left-footed players in the UK… quite the reverse, I’d have thought! I think there is merely a lack of them and the day a talented and reliable left-footed defender/midfielder emerges will, I think, be a glorious one for England.
Finally, Kev, your post makes for very sombre reading. I am currently out of the country (I am in Asia) and I therefore rely on the Internet for European news. But the tought of Hooliganism rearing its ugly head again is disheartening. It’s not even as though you can reason with these people. They just cannot handle their drinks and the drunker they get the more they revert to a primitive stage of evolution before your eyes…
I was an anglophile through and through when I settled in England and have since tried my hardest to blend in and become as English as I could. But incidents such as these make me question my decision to stay here… It is really such a relief to see that there are still true gents and ladies around, such as your good self and chaps like Jonesy among others, in many walks of life and in many places, including this board.
I think there has been a steady degradation of moral values at work in many modern countries, and I fail to see how we can invert the trend. I might sound like a an old fogey, but I really don’t think poisoning people’s minds with rubbish such as Big Brother and all the fly on the wall, warts and all, docu-soaps is going to improve matters. How can we expect our youth to uphold certain values when they see that being selfish, loud, obnoxious, cruel, unclutured and proud of it, narrow minded will enable them to get ahead in life?
🙁
SnowmanRE: bye bye England
Firstly, Ja, you mention incidents involving French supporters. I must say if anything’s happened, it has escaped my notice. Would you care to elaborate, please? By and large, supporters of the French national side are not renowned for their bad behaviour.
Secondly, Mongu, I’m not sure there is a hatred of left-footed players in the UK… quite the reverse, I’d have thought! I think there is merely a lack of them and the day a talented and reliable left-footed defender/midfielder emerges will, I think, be a glorious one for England.
Finally, Kev, your post makes for very sombre reading. I am currently out of the country (I am in Asia) and I therefore rely on the Internet for European news. But the tought of Hooliganism rearing its ugly head again is disheartening. It’s not even as though you can reason with these people. They just cannot handle their drinks and the drunker they get the more they revert to a primitive stage of evolution before your eyes…
I was an anglophile through and through when I settled in England and have since tried my hardest to blend in and become as English as I could. But incidents such as these make me question my decision to stay here… It is really such a relief to see that there are still true gents and ladies around, such as your good self and chaps like Jonesy among others, in many walks of life and in many places, including this board.
I think there has been a steady degradation of moral values at work in many modern countries, and I fail to see how we can invert the trend. I might sound like a an old fogey, but I really don’t think poisoning people’s minds with rubbish such as Big Brother and all the fly on the wall, warts and all, docu-soaps is going to improve matters. How can we expect our youth to uphold certain values when they see that being selfish, loud, obnoxious, cruel, unclutured and proud of it, narrow minded will enable them to get ahead in life?
🙁
SnowmanRE: Argentina
Apologies duly noted mongu!
SnowmanRE: Argentina
Apologies duly noted mongu!
SnowmanRE: Argentina
Steady on there, mate.
I don’t think talk such as this will make matters better. Pride in your nation is a fine thing, but there’s enough hatred flying around in the world without encouraging it. (I mean the tabloids do that already; remember Euro 96 and the ‘Achtung Surrender’ headline?).
Like somebidy said, patriotism is the love of your country, and xenophobia is the hatred of all others. I really don’t think we need to put more oil on the fire….
SnowmanRE: Argentina
Steady on there, mate.
I don’t think talk such as this will make matters better. Pride in your nation is a fine thing, but there’s enough hatred flying around in the world without encouraging it. (I mean the tabloids do that already; remember Euro 96 and the ‘Achtung Surrender’ headline?).
Like somebidy said, patriotism is the love of your country, and xenophobia is the hatred of all others. I really don’t think we need to put more oil on the fire….
SnowmanRE: Argentina
There was an interesting piece in the Daily Mirror yesterday. The author explained that now that England have defeated Argentina, maybe some of the myths can be layed to rest.
He mentioned the 1986 game obviously, but also pointed out that in 1966 the Argentinians may have had a point in complaining about the sending off. He also said that the foul on Owen which resulted in an England penalty vs Argentina in 1998 was dodgy. His conclusion was that it might now be an appropriate time to ackowledge that England too have not always been free from blame.
I hasten to add that as far as I could tell, he is an English reporter and not a foreign hack with an axe to grind.
I must admit that the Argentinian jeering and laughing at the English players after the game in 1998 was a disgrace. You can tell a lot by the way people handle defeat as well as victory, and even allowing for the bad blood between the two countries, this behaviour was shocking and utterly disgusting.
And one has to point out that the little tricks of the trade, the cheating, the mind games (like Simeone trying to shake Beck’s hand before the penalty this year) leave a nasty taste in the mouth. They have a lot of gifted players. It’s a shame that their behaviour on and off the pitch doesn’t match these abilities. And it’s easy to see how such a behaviour would not endear them to other countries.
Mongu, I’d like to add one thing to your remarks about support: I think you have understated the national side of things in your post. Some of us also obviously support the team which represent our country. Even when they are not shining out on the pitch, we still want them to do well.
SnowmanRE: Argentina
There was an interesting piece in the Daily Mirror yesterday. The author explained that now that England have defeated Argentina, maybe some of the myths can be layed to rest.
He mentioned the 1986 game obviously, but also pointed out that in 1966 the Argentinians may have had a point in complaining about the sending off. He also said that the foul on Owen which resulted in an England penalty vs Argentina in 1998 was dodgy. His conclusion was that it might now be an appropriate time to ackowledge that England too have not always been free from blame.
I hasten to add that as far as I could tell, he is an English reporter and not a foreign hack with an axe to grind.
I must admit that the Argentinian jeering and laughing at the English players after the game in 1998 was a disgrace. You can tell a lot by the way people handle defeat as well as victory, and even allowing for the bad blood between the two countries, this behaviour was shocking and utterly disgusting.
And one has to point out that the little tricks of the trade, the cheating, the mind games (like Simeone trying to shake Beck’s hand before the penalty this year) leave a nasty taste in the mouth. They have a lot of gifted players. It’s a shame that their behaviour on and off the pitch doesn’t match these abilities. And it’s easy to see how such a behaviour would not endear them to other countries.
Mongu, I’d like to add one thing to your remarks about support: I think you have understated the national side of things in your post. Some of us also obviously support the team which represent our country. Even when they are not shining out on the pitch, we still want them to do well.
SnowmanMove over, Ferrero Rocher!
‘With these mushrooms à la brésilienne, you really spoil us, Mr Amassador!’
:9
SnowmanMove over, Ferrero Rocher!
‘With these mushrooms à la brésilienne, you really spoil us, Mr Amassador!’
:9
SnowmanRE: Belgium for world champignon
Interesting typing error!
The word ‘champignon’ means ‘mushroom’ in French. Is the Belgium the mushroom of the world? I wouldn’t like to say…!
😀
SnowmanRE: Belgium for world champignon
Interesting typing error!
The word ‘champignon’ means ‘mushroom’ in French. Is the Belgium the mushroom of the world? I wouldn’t like to say…!
😀
SnowmanRE: Please be honest.
Hand87_5, I think we can safely say that Gary was joking about being American.
Geforce, you can laugh about France and Holland’s performances this year, but I reckon that if we are talking football pedigree, The Netherlands and France have a rather more prestigious history than Belgium. And we are not just talking trophies there: I think the best Holland teams of the past have a special place in most football fans’ hearts.
SnowmanRE: Please be honest.
Hand87_5, I think we can safely say that Gary was joking about being American.
Geforce, you can laugh about France and Holland’s performances this year, but I reckon that if we are talking football pedigree, The Netherlands and France have a rather more prestigious history than Belgium. And we are not just talking trophies there: I think the best Holland teams of the past have a special place in most football fans’ hearts.
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