Bluewings i have a mission for u that the typhoon is better.

You do realize this is Bluewings you are talking to ? He explores the capabilities of french hardware that even their mistranslated overzealous marketing handouts and publications fail to mention. Rafale is a good plane, he makes it better 🙂

Before India will decide what aircraft to buy for MMRCA, we will have like 9th generation of fighter aircraft.

And they will be still deciding between Rafale and Eurofighter … :diablo:

Or they will just built 1000 LCA … 😀

wow, so aviation world is going to jump 4 generations before september ? 😮

Too bad Russia isn’t selling the PAKFA in barter trade in exchange for hair cuts, shoes shines, and health insurance MaximumG. PPP is useful in evaluating cost of living expenses in similarly developed economies (say Denmark vs Germany), but beyond that its just another useless way to make poor countries look better than they are.

Ooh, trying to be racist towards all third world countries here sir or any one country in particular ?

I suspect PLAAF buys of the J-20 will be significantly greater than that.

How does that pertain to this thread, if you care to explain before you get banned for trolling ?

Twinblade, AMCA is in the 20 t category and with 2 engines of 90-100 kN each its TWR will be comparable to the f-22/PAKFA/EF and quite a bit higher than f-35.

20 ton loaded weight or mtow ?

it seems more likely to be loaded weight, which is in fact very close to 22.5 ton loaded weight of f-35. Plus it has to be long/wide/thick enough to have 2 decent internal bays, and since it is a diamond wing twin engine medium sized fighter, the closest size equivalent in 4th gen would be Mig-29. Now the way i see it, two light engines occupy more volume than a heavy single engine, so either AMCA would be really short legged (on internal fuel) to have that kind of t/w ratio or it would be fat like JSF and would need two EPE or next variant of EJT-2000 to maintain a good t/w ratio. Another way forward would be the design SAAB suggested for KF-X with two small bays to hold two meteors and sidewinders, but IAF wants a “full multirole” aircraft, so that kind of design would be really unlikely.

The challenges for a medium sized stealth fighter seem tougher than that for a large one, therefore US, Russia and China, all opted for large 5th gens for their first stealth fighters (enough internal volume for massive engines, massive internal bays and large amounts of fuel without being aerodynamically handicapped by its shape)

Cannot see the F-35 for India happening tbh

1. By the time the F-35 is available for purchase the Rafale and Eurofighter will be better in all aspects other than a vlo platform. Which on the F-35 can only be used on first day due to its abysmal internal bays.

F-35 can carry almost 8.1 tons of ammunition apart from fuel. I agree Rafale and Eurofighter don’t become obsolete just because 5th gen is here but F-35 isn’t that bad either.

2. India is involved in 2 very low aircraft programs which should be all things proper and correct a lot cheaper to purchase than the F-35. So i believe that they will simply wait for the ability. After all there is little chance of china/Pakistan getting stealth first anyway.

What if the AMCA goes awry ? I wouldn’t be holding my breath for AMCA to enter service before 2025, if it ever does.

3. It appears to me that manoeuvrability is fairly important to the Indians, and there are serious questions as to how the F-35 will move on the dance floor.

In short i really cannot see it.

I do have to agree with you on this one, but AMCA does not seem to be too promising on this front either. The Kaveri GTX-35-K-10 program aspires to deliver 95-100 KN by 2016 in GE-404 sized package and it will have to be the engine for AMCA (IAF brass has made it very clear). The thrust of AMCA can therefore be expected to be around 190-200 KN, not a major improvement over JSF, although they may compensate by making AMCA a little lighter.

*Conspiracy Theory*
BTW I feel this is just lip service for diplomatic relationships

1. US may “formally” offer F-35 tier 3 partnership to negate the fact that they did not offer “the best aircraft they could”
2. Indians may “politely” turn down the offer citing delivery schedules, ToT, Embargo-phobia and what not.
3. US walks off with their show of generosity, Indian MoD looks foolish for not en-cashing on best of both sides deal :rolleyes:

Lets go system by system, looking at the LCA.

India already makes Mission Computers w/video modules, Stores Management systems, MFDs, integrated EW suites. The MiG-27, MiG-29, LCA suites will get validated by next year. They are already on aircraft (MiG-27 and MiG-29 Upgrades).

The LCA MMR is now working & is being integrated with the Derby & Python 5. By FOC, it would have been demo’ed and integration completed.

A local Display Map Generator has been demo’ed as well or we could just use the Israeli one used on the Su-30 MKI, MiG-27, Jaguar upgrades.

TACAN, ILS, V/UFH radios are available locally from HAL and so is IFF.

We’ll at best just need a RLG-INS like the Sagem Sigma 95N (till the local RLG-INS for missiles goes into volume production for aircraft) & some additional stuff like the datalinks (ODL).

India has already integrated the Litening 2 pod on the MiG-27 (no easy task) and the DARIN-2 Jaguar. Both can launch LGBs. Elbit DASH HMS has already been integrated on the LCA.

In other words, if the IAF just waits a couple of years till the LCA FOC, it can just take the entire LCA avionics suite and put it on the Mirage 2000 & add considerable capability and save a huge pile of money in the bargain. I really cannot imagine spending $2.6 Billion just on the avionics and assembly TOT for just 51 aircraft.

What about the engines ? GE-404, GE-414 and F-110 are too wide for M2k.

BTW is ef 2020 an MLU or a new tranche ?