Airbus have delivered 52 of 236 firm orders.

That leaves 184 on the backlog.

The production rate last year was 18, this year will be about 25.

184/25 is over 7 years. Airlines typically don’t like waiting that long.

Amiga is so knowledgeable that he knows more than the head of GE aviation?

And you assume he is openly telling the truth?

What age are you?

Perhaps they (GE) knew they were gonna get sole source on the 200LR and 300ER way back in ’95? Perhaps they know a lot of things that we don’t.

They had no orders for the mk2 777 – thats the key thing. Your basing an argument around orders before committing to a design.

Its a ridiculous argument that doesn’t stack up whatsoever.

I note you didn’t bother commenting on their 787 orders being significantly less than the 500 apparently required to commit to a program… :rolleyes:

I’m wondering Amiga, since you are so knowledgeable, if you would care to inform those of us among the great unwashed as to why GE is not interested in the A350? The head of GE aviation is leaving that airplane totally to RR, which one would think would please you.

GE aren’t looking at the A350 as they are looking at the 777 upgrade.

Engineering resource isn’t finite. They cannot support GenX (admittedly moving from NPD to CPD), Leap-X, an A350XWB specific program and a B777 specific program with their design methodology.

Surely that would be blatantly obvious to anyone with any idea of the industry…

Edited: CoC Rule 15

Yet only ~360 787s have been sold with GE engines so far… :rolleyes:

The 777 entered into service in 1995. By 1997 there were still only 320 odd orders (shared between 3 engine manufacturers for those variants). Wonder why GE committed to the GE90 with such a paltry orderbook.

He is spouting pure rubbish. Lapped up by someone gullible enough to not even bother searching out such basic facts to verify the foundations of their argument.

No doubt you’ll respond with some rubbish about the warmed over RB211 – which has somehow managed to capture approximately 37% of the 787 market against GE’s latest and greatest. Well, if Rolls-Royce are still selling engines designed in the 1970s, does the fact they still get so much market share not reflect rather poorly on the mighty General Electric?

One or the other may have sold airplanes at or below cost just to get the production line moving. And you call others silly and niave?

You are actually trying to say they sold 500+ airliners with 1000+ engines at a loss, “just to get the production line moving”?

Please be serious. I’ve better things to do with my time than deal with that sort of rubbish.

Also, you state that the Trent 500 core is used, and then say it is not. Which is it?

I didn’t state the Trent 500 is used – I noted wikipedia stated it (that was the bold bit, the wiki quote within “”.

They do not use the Trent 500 core in the 900. They use a development of it.

How long can you keep “adapting?” At some point you need a clean sheet design, and I contend that only GE has done that successfully in the last 30 years. I guess we agree again.

You only need a clean sheet design if something is fundamentally wrong with your basic concept.

The triple spool R-R concept is remarkably flexible – and allows them to continually evolve their designs based on previous experience.

For instance, the Trent 1000 is a new engine. It borrows heavily on knowledge gained from the T800/T900, but there will be no common components. I read things like the wiki entry about the T900 saying “It is also the first member of the Trent family to feature a contra-rotating HP spool and uses the core of the very reliable Trent 500“.

It does not use the same core as that found in a Trent 500. Similar, yes, based on, yes, but not identical. It is extremely silly (and naive) to suggest otherwise.

…Incidentally such an outcome also leaves programs like MS-21 with the best possible competitive environment, at least if they can execute on time to get the largest window before new clean-sheet designs eventually come out from Airbus and Boeing.

I know what I’d do if I were COMAC or Irkut.

Have a design Mach number of 0.6-0.65.

Take the hit on speed and have a more fuel efficient aircraft.

Don’t try and beat them on their home patch. Set up camp somewhere else and see if the airlines bite. Given the price of fuel – I firmly believe most airlines would swap a 20% decrease in speed for a 10% decrease in fuel consumption.

They have an engine what aircraft do they prove it on?

As I said on up the thread – they may not be fighting in this battle.

RR probably won’t be in a position to complete, even with the Advance series, this side of 2020.

If they get quality right and manage to demonstrate good global customer support they could win the very price sensitive single-isle segment.

The only means of demonstrating this are time-honoured.

For that reason, I don’t see Irkut and Comac being a significant threat until the 2025-2030 timeframe.